MSN, Community guidelines and standards being inappropriately applied.

Dear Don Varnau,

I have addressed in my earlier post on other threads on the MSN forums on the particular subject being discussed here. So please let me clarify some things which apply to the topic being discussed here.

[snip]

Here (again) is the relevant portion of my canned response on moderation. 

4. Moderation is a dysfunctional mess. It's being done via AI, via a bot, not humans and is 

   random and inexplicable.

6. I've searched but have not found a way to contact MSN staff regarding this moderation 

   except the Feedback link that's at the bottom of nearly every MSN webpage. If you receive 

   a reply to the feedback, it will be a generic reply that doesn't address your specific issue.

Don

Sad, but true, apparently.

Dear Don Varnau,

  I have addressed in my earlier post on other threads on the MSN forums on the particular subject being discussed here. So please let me clarify some things which apply to the topic being discussed here.

  Earlier, on other threads, I have actually established 'A FACT', that the MSN 'A.I.' was/is not acting randomly, or that it was simply a mistake of the universal A.I. algorithm "god", but instead that there was an actual arbitrary behavior to the MSN 'A.I'. This I indeed established that I could post the same "flagged" words or "blocked" posts on other articles, or on other days, with the post being approved, but on certain articles or days these same words would be flagged or blocked.

  I have even been able to post, successfully, other more controversial words or statements successfully. However, there seems to be certain topics, or certain articles published on MSN, in which 'all of the sudden' (or by design) the A.I. 'god' becomes more aggressive and starts flagging posts or block posts, for what some have posted on here is a mere '4-letter word' like "sigh", or "words like "gay", and other examples.

   These words which were flagged/blocked were the same words were used in the context of which nothing typed/said could be construed as violating the "MSN Community Guidelines ". However, that you have stated that, "A.I. is learning and making a mistake", explanation. This explanation seems plausible, until we acknowledge 'THE FACT', which I can prove, and I have established, 'WHICH IS' that I can post the same words, or even more questionable pointed words, on certain articles, and certain days without any flagging or blocking whatsoever. 

   This then begs the question to be asked, For what reason does the A.I. flag or block, at only certain times, and certain days. Could the A.I. also then, by sheer curiousness on my part, block or flag words for only certain users? By showing that the MSN 'A.I.' can indeed show varying degrees of "censor", at its discretion, since it is not a universal flagging or blocking of words (which I established earlier), is it then of something of a type of manipulation, or control methods, behind the A.I. standard operating parameters? Like, is there an Administrator or Owner of the MSN 'A.I.' which can "adjust" settings to make the MSN 'A.I.' more aggressive on certain article forums, or users, or any adjustment at all in which could make the A.I. respond differently to other environments?

  It really is a legitimate grievance for the users on the MSN Community forums, if they do notice inconsistencies, or when their comments are flagged or blocked for not violating any MSN policy. And to simply get on here and claim that it was the MSN 'A.I.' that did it, and not MSN, may be true to some degree, it still should require further investigation and remedy for the users of the MSN community forums, for Microsoft to give feedback, or a proper venue to address these issues. Especially, if like you say, that the A.I. is new, experimental, and in the "learning process". If this is the case, then I would expect at the very least, Microsoft to warrant some actual Human moderators, and merit a coding (administrator/programmer) team to do detailed analysis to this "new and wild" animal "A.I." creature, since it is new, and learning, and we might want to make sure it just doesn't trample on everyone's civil rights, and cause intellectual harm or damage, if you know what I mean?

   Myself, Like others on this thread are asking for, are simply asking Microsoft, or the MSN Moderators to clarify a process in which "we", 'the actual community', request a department, manager, or appeals committee process, to , at the very least address the concerns or look at the issues that 'the community' wishes to see addressed, (Specifically Speaking) for concerns regarding of the comments being flagged or blocked, WHICH DO NOT violate the "MSN Community Guidelines" code of conduct. This request seems to be a pretty fair one, and not out of the ordinary, given your admission that the MSN 'A.I' is new, and learning, and "us" the actual 'community' wish to be safe on the forums from manipulation and harm from other users, including the now "Moderator admitted" unpredictable new "A.I." system.

  We don't even want the solution from you Sir Don. All we are asking for, is for you to point us in the direction which myself, and the 'community' others  need to be directed to, in order to get these issues addressed, properly, which we are speaking of as a matter of FACT on this thread, which I have clearly asserted as legitimate grievances, to the proper Microsoft department facility for investigation into the arbitrary lagging of comments issue which is now being disputed. I appreciate your help in this matter. Thank-You.

I for one never thought Microsoft was paying much attention. But MSN is in fact a "product" and people are noting how it isn't working well. They are giving examples of how it isn't working. This, per Moderator, is exactly what this forum is for. If Microsoft chooses to ignore it, that's their business. One of the ways it isn't working well is the "Feedback" link that never results in a response.

One of the things I've always liked about Microsoft, as opposed to Apple, is the relative transparency of how to use the programs, particularly the browser and OS, without having to be a coder. One may not want to mess with the Registry, but one can figure out how to locate files, arrange them, delete or modify them, share them, etc without having someone explain it. With my experience with iOS (at least on an iPad) those things can be very hard to do. Why this doesn't extend to explanations of what the "Code of Conduct" means in a particular context is one of the mysteries of this product.

Sadly, no one has come up with a solution that makes MSN commenting workable, so the solution I have come up with is the only one currently feasible: Don't read MSN News. The only connection I have with it is reading the posts that come in my email.

Dear moderator.

Back when I was using MSN I wrote literally dozens of times on the feedback option asking why a particular innocuous statement was against community standards. I never got any kind of response. This was even when something with nary a swear word or obscene insinuation or remote reference to anything religious got dinged for "profanity." That, as I recall, was the objection to "sigh." Each time I read the community standards and could find no way they fit what I'd said.

Is this sort of forum NOT the place to discuss why Microsoft refuses to clarify its community standards? If so, what is the right forum? Is this forum not the place to share our experiences in this regard? If not, what is the right forum?

I have been reading the responses and have been disturbed by the number who think the strange behavior regarding community standards is a liberal plot to silence voices or a conservative plot to do same. I try to suggest that it it is neither since since so many people of all political persuasion seem to suffer from the problem, and wonder why technically speaking this is so, and this is a conspiracy theory?

If anyone DOES have an explanation of why so many of us are befuddled by MSN's application of community standards, none of which I disagree with in the slightest but none of which seem to be violated by a post. I have been using Microsoft products from MS Dos onward, through all versions of Windows. I'm not a tech person but my son was a software engineer at Microsoft for over a decade. I am a Microsoft Stockholder. I subscribe to Microsoft 365. I am about the last person you will find who is Anti-Microsoft. That is why the particular behavior of the particular corner of it known as MSN as exemplified by the homepage built into Windows is so disturbing. It is a betrayal of my years of defending Microsoft.

>Is this sort of forum NOT the place to discuss why Microsoft refuses to clarify its community standards?

1. It's not a discussion when people are simply posting nearly identical complaints about the absurd performance of the moderation bot.
2. Many seem to think that they are submitting feedback to MSN when posting here. I have no reason to believe that MSN staff read comments posted here.

>disturbed by the number who think the strange behavior regarding community standards is a liberal plot to silence voices or a conservative plot to do same. I try to suggest that it it is neither since since so many people of all political persuasion seem to suffer from the problem

Some people need to feel persecuted.

>If anyone DOES have an explanation of why so many of us are befuddled by MSN's application of community standards

Too many people seem to not realize or accept that AI is in the early stages and can be very, very imperfect. Microsoft believes, however, that AI is the future and is heavily invested in it.

Don