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Hello,
I have discovered an unfortunate problem with Windows 10.
Many games from the early-mid 2000's used Macrovision's SafeDisc (version 2) as a means of copy protection. At game startup, Windows loaded SECDRV.SYS to verify an original game disc was in the drive, after which the game would start.
When you try to run ANY game which uses this SafeDisc form of copy protection in Windows 10, the following happens:
- You get an error window that tells you to log in with Administrator Privileges and to try again. This happens on any account, even those with Administrator access. The game fails to start.
- If you then set "Run as Admin" compatibility mode on the game's startup file, the message disappears, but the game doesn't start.
- Keeping a window open for C:\WINDOWS\SYSWOW64\DRIVERS shows SECDRV.SYS appearing at the moment you try to start the game. Based on its size, it appears to be the file that is present on the game disc (tested across several games), even though I see no disc activity and cannot find the file elsewhere on my system.
- The Windows event log shows that SECDRV.SYS failed to load.
- This happens both with an upgraded install (Windows 8.1 > Windows 10) and with a fresh Windows 10 install, with one of the games being installed immediately upon the fresh install completing.
- On my Windows 64-bit 8.1 system, C:\WINDOWS\WINSXS has a folder called amd64_macrovision-protection-safedisc_31bf3856ad364e35_6.3.9600.16384_none_4e6b3758913c9240 with a SECDRV.SYS in it, presumably the one that ships with Windows. Windows 10 had such a folder in early builds, but it is missing from the release build. It appears SafeDisc support is missing entirely.
OTHER TESTING I HAVE DONE:
- I updated one of the games to a version that no longer required the CD check, and it started immediately and ran perfectly once the check was removed. However, this is possible only with a very limited number of games, or resorting to fixes that violate the game's EULA or put the user's system security at risk.
- I tried disabling driver signature verification and installing one of the games again; same problem.
- Multiple compatibility modes; same problem. XP (Service Pack 3) mode and / or Run as Administrator mode make the error message go away, but the games still fail to launch.
SIGNIFICANCE:
Unless this is fixed in Windows 10, a massive catalog of older games will cease to function in Windows 10 for the simple reason that they cannot pass the SafeDisc copy protection check. I am accustomed to some games breaking with every new version of Windows as technology progresses (for example, the loss of the ability to run 16-bit programs in 64-bit Windows), but this seems to be an unnecessarily harsh change.
Locked Question. This question was migrated from the Microsoft Support Community. You can vote on whether it's helpful, but you can't add comments or replies or follow the question.
I have a BD drive on my box, I use it to backup files. BD is 25GB and disks are cheap, so it gives me some peace of mind that important files are safe.
Cakes of 20 BD are maybe $20 plus shipping, dual layer 50GB disks are maybe $99 for a cake of 50
I suggest if you use UEFI to boot a big disk you will need an optical drive, UEFI does not support USB sticks for security reasons
I used a dual layer DVD to have a hybrid 32/64 bit installer so it could upgrade any box
THEREFORE, YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO PLAY DRM-PROTECTED OPTICAL MEDIA BASED GAMES IN WINDOWS OPERATING SYSTEMS EVER AGAIN.
I agree with some of your points but have to admit that I've read only parts of your wall of text (rant). I agree that the decision to blacklist secdrv.sys has indeed shady sides and there are some motivations to do so.
I am pretty sure that I will be able to play DRM protected games based on optical media, even though I have to leave the official path and don't even try to bother to solve the secdrv.sys issue but to workaround the protection. That is actually a decision each has to do for his own.
Nevertheless the secdrv.sys and other DRMs aren't troubling for the first time. I can recall that I cannot even run Dune Emperor even though the disc is original and the DRM is pretty much working - but some DRM ever had issues themselves - in junction with newer Windows releases.
Imho the introduction of DRM was the worst decision publishers ever took when trying to protect their property and also it cost a lot of money (licenses and production) - while it was exploitable too easy - any time.
Nowadays optical mediums are fairly OUT. I know just a few people that bothered to buy Blueray writer to store or copy anything like we did in the past, with CDs and DVDs in masses.
I am still convinced that the responsible MS employees aren't reading this thread, so making MS more directly aware about the problem is essential.
Steam and similar platforms will hopefully not close their doors in the future. This would be more of a critical problem than this secdrv.sys issue will become ever.
I agree with Eric and MS that secdrv.sys is a kernel near driver that would not probably work with things like secure boot and UEFI. That's why the digitally signing is so essential at all.
We could blame MS for improving security thus dropping the support for this "ancient" DRM or we just thank them that they protect us from a possible exploitable driver that no regular user is even aware about it does install itself silently on your computer
Have you seen any user dialogue in the past that your disc is installing the driver secdrv.sys at all? At least I haven't.
p.s. Another question: If MS is blocking secdrv.sys why Rovi (Macrovision) does not offer a removal tool for the games officially? Do you really expect that there will happen a colateral financial damage in a form of raised piracy of legacy games? I doubt it.
There are sites like abandonware etc and old games that can be now played for free using VMs etc but they don't see download rates in the thousands or millions like those ridicilous Facebook games have or games within the MS Windows 8/10 store.
Good point but why they seem to stop supporting secdrv.sys in Windows 8.x?
Red stuff nonetheless I hope, or is it blue in your case :D
Well they're reading this thread, too. I'm pretty sure of it.
The whole SECDRV discussion within Microsoft imho would off course be whether to include and (allow people to) enable a piece of code that is rated unsafe, knowing that a single weak link can break an otherwise good (even a perfect) cable. The way I look at it is that disabling and removing it is the responsible thing to do from a security perspective.
That said, I might have to read back the whole thread figuring out whether the sign and enable TESTSIGNING boot mode as mentioned by Adam Bise on August 17 still works, whether it has to be re-enabled and/or the driver re-signed before every boot to work to start games, or that the whole procedure has been forced to not work by making sure the service for SECDRV.SYS doesn't start regardless of the drivers signed status or TESTSIGNING boot mode status?
In the case SECDRV won't load whatever is attempted, dual booting an older SKU is the way to go indeed. Regardless of the above, this has the additional benefit of having only security holes in an OS that is only used to play games. That would help isolating possible security issues with SECDRV. Note that if there is a viable security breach anywhere, there's really no telling how it can be exploited, so this might not be safe anyhow if there are other computers on the network, or you use e.g. any passwords that you also use elsewhere.
That isolating this issue isn't as easy as might seem, even on a separate OS, serves to defend Microsofts apparent position to choose to eliminate SECDRV from Windows 10 all together.
