System restore mysteries / shadow copies etc

Anonymous

Hi,

New Windows 10 user here.
Have Googled/Binged around and still a bit puzzled about this.

So, System Restore is defaulted to "Off" in Windows 10. I understand some of the reasons for this, but still find it a useful tool.
(I left it like that, since it's still fresh and can basically just factory reset at this point)

Restore settings mention "using system protection on a drive that contains system image backups will cause other shadow copies to be deleted faster than normal"

OK. I'm not sure how fast "normal" is meant to be...

My Windows 10 came with Dell's SupportAssist installed, which apparently has its own recovery tools. Using it to download/install a few drivers, I noticed it had enabled Windows' System Restore by itself and created some restore points there.
(This came in useful because SupportAssist's driver updates resulted in a BSOD every time! I'll be uninstalling it...)

What set me wondering though, is I later noticed some errors in Event Viewer

"The shadow copies ... were aborted because the shadow copy storage could not grow due to a user imposed limit"

So it's already full?

8.90GB was set aside and I've barely done anything besides customise my user account!

Installed nothing!!

I then checked and all my restore points had gone too
This was strange because there haven't been any Windows - or even driver - updates in the meantime (which is usually the reason against keeping old restore points, for compatibility etc..?)

So I'm not getting shadow copies, and I'm not getting restore points...

What was more odd, was system restore was saying there were no restore points, but Current Usage showed 400-600MB in use.
What is this being used for?

Are they all these functions competing for the same space?
(and is this space barely enough for more than 1 of them to work properly?)

I don't really understand a great deal about system image backups, shadow copies, or restore points generally... I just know I should be backing up in some way.
Ideally in a way I don't have to mircomanage...

So hopefully someone could explain

System Image Backup

I can just reset to factory settings / reinstall Windows can't I, if things got really bad?
Are there any likely cases where I wouldn't be able to?
Is there any advantage (for the average Joe) in making a separate recovery drive to boot from?

> When the above warning mentioned a drive with "system image backups" (plural), what did it mean?
Is Windows automatically making many new system images itself?
Are they available to me?
(beyond the factory reset)

Shadow copies

Where can I find these / how can I access them?
As long as I'm backing up my files regularly, I should mostly be fine.
But it would be nice to get back the *exact* content I lost in the event of a crash. So how do I do this?

System restore

I'd like to have something with this functionality, but not if it's preventing the above functions from working.
And I'm not into backing up my whole system to another drive on a daily basis, that seems like a lot of hassle

So basically, what's the best practice for low-effort safeguarding in the event of a failure to boot / hijack / loss of data etc?
I'm more confused than ever now

(I haven't noticed the shadow copy error in the last few days, and a new restore point was created. But I don't expect either to last like this for long...)

Thanks

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Anonymous

(1) Your ReagentC shows partition 4 to be the Windows Recovery Environment partition. Shift+Restart will reboot to its recovery tools ("Choose an Option" screen). Normally, the computer also goes there when it has failed to boot Windows three times in a row. But going by that article I found, your computer will go to Partition 6 instead...

https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-in/000177401/restore-your-system-using-dell-supportassist-os-recovery

Restore your system using Dell SupportAssist OS Recovery

I don't see it saying it is making images or even just doing an independent backup & restore of user files. All I see is that you can do a factory reset (to the version of Windows that is on partition 5) or a fresh install of the latest Windows 10. You don't really want a factory reset after you've advanced to a greater version of Windows. It not only brings back the old version but also all the pre-installed Dell/Microsoft apps you've uninstalled along the way. And a fresh install of the latest version of Windows keeping files is what a regular reset will do anyway (without Dell's help). In either case, it will allow you to backup user files in concert with the reset & restore them afterward (but not apps). But the files will need to be accessible, i.e., whatever caused the catastrophe better not have messed with them. That's how I read it.

A Windows system image is superior because files, apps, & settings all are in the image, & apps that were deleted remain deleted when the image is restored. Also, Firewall rules are restored to that day. Only the ones you've changed since then will have to be changed again. And system images don't take terabytes. My three together occupy just 83.1 GB. A 3rd-party app could compress them even more...

That day I had to restore an image, everything was back as/of the date the image was made. But the choice is yours. And now I think your setup does possibly survive an upgrade-install because things work through BIOS & partition 6 instead of messing with the Windows recovery partition. But I really can't say for sure.

(2) That's right, Disk Management can't move a partition, & it can't expand a partition except into unallocated space immediately to the right of it. That's why a 3rd-party app is needed, but there's a bunch to choose from. It would have been nice had Dell decided to give us stuff Windows didn't already have on its own, but they didn't. If they ever do give us a partition manager, it likely will only do what Disk Management can already do.

(3) Yep, my DCOMCFG looks just like yours. Let us hope the VSS errors stay gone with Support Assist. But they almost sounded as if they could be ignored anyway. It certainly didn't keep you from getting a ton of shadow copies.

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Anonymous

DISKPART> List Part

Partition ### Type Size Offset

------------- ------------ --------- -------

Partition 1 System 250 MB 1024 KB <<<EFI system partition

Partition 2 Reserved 128 MB 251 MB <<<MSR (Microsoft Reserved)

Partition 3 Primary 222 GB 379 MB <<<Windows partition

Partition 4 Recovery 990 MB 222 GB <<<Recovery Environment partition

Partition 5 Recovery 13 GB 223 GB <<<Factory reinstall partition

Partition 6 Recovery 1309 MB 237 GB <<<Or is this the RE partition?

Let's see "ReagentC /Info" at an Admin Command Prompt. It will point to either partition 4 or 6 as the active Recovery Environment partition (Shift+Restart goes there)...

C:\WINDOWS\system32>ReagentC /Info

Windows Recovery Environment (Windows RE) and system reset configuration

Information:

Windows RE status: Enabled

Windows RE location: \?\GLOBALROOT\device\harddisk0*partition4*\Recovery\WindowsRE

Boot Configuration Data (BCD) identifier: f8d976fc-df94-11ea-b1d0-74e6e2074932

Recovery image location:

Recovery image index: 0

Custom image location:

Custom image index: 0

REAGENTC.EXE: Operation Successful.

I think yours is partition 4 like mine. Then both partition 5 & 6 are expendable as soon as you begin to make system images of your own. I guess we could put a letter on partition 6 to see what's in it first...

DiskPart

Select Disk 0

Select Part 6

Assign Letter=X <<<Put letter X on partition 6

Exit

DIR X:\ /a /s <<<Show contents of X:. Remove "/s" to show just the root directory.

DiskPart

Select Vol=X

Remove Letter=X <<<Remove the letter X

Exit

Partitions 5 & 6 can be deleted with DiskPart. Then a 3rd-party app will be required to move partition 4 fully rightward over the 14.3 GB of newly unallocated space. Finally, Disk Management can expand C:partition into that space. But we'd want you to be comfortable with Windows system images of your own (onto an external HDD) before doing so. I think Greg gave you instructions how to use Macrium Reflect. And that could indeed be worthwhile. But I am still a believer in Windows own image maker...

To backup the entire computer, make a Windows system image backup. It makes a backup of all the Windows partitions required to boot & run Windows: EFI, MSR, Windows (C:), & Recovery. If you've got additional partition(s), they will also be offered for inclusion. (But likely that Dell factory reinstall partition won't be offered). A 2 TB external HDD is large enough to never fill with images. An 8 GB flash drive should be large enough to hold a Recovery drive (used to restore an image).

I make one after each new OS Build comes in & runs well, & I keep the last three...

I rename the computername folder which is inside the WindowsImageBackup folder (by appending the OS Build to it) in order to keep them separate & distinct. All three will be offered during the restore process.

Make it at "START, Settings, Update & Security, Backup, Go to backup & Restore (Win 7), Create a system image". Afterward, make the Repair Disc or (even better) ask Cortana for Recovery Drive to put it on USB. That can be used to do a restore. Then see the following to know how to restore one...

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-update/how-to-restore-a-windows-10-system-image-to-an/e20992ca-5641-4f7c-bb09-3895d0732162

How to restore a Windows 10 system image to an existing or larger storage device

https://www.winhelp.us/restore-a-system-image-in-windows-7.html

Restore a System Image Backup in Windows 7, 8, 8.1 and 10

Note: That is an informative 3rd-party site, but I know nothing (good or bad) about any downloads or links that are there (or anywhere else).

If your external hard drive (or the internal one I guess) is a Seagate or Maxtor, there will be a free version of Acronis True Image at their site. Seagate calls it DiscWizard. Macrium Reflect, AOMEI Backupper & others also offer free versions of their image makers. These 3rd-party apps are quicker, make more compact images, & are more flexible in use. But the Windows version works in under 15 minutes on my small & uncomplicated system. I must add, DiscWizard's Bootable Media (to restore an image when Windows won't boot) requires a Mouse to operate. Plug one in, & it is instantly recognized.

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61 additional answers

Anonymous

2021-04-23T17:14:28+00:00

Thanks,

It was only the first time it wasn't on, and is currently turned on. I think it's a 2019 model - so possibly this just predated the settings change to being auto-on, which you mentioned happened a while ago.

The main problem was the restore points it created vanished without explanation. It's still creating new ones.
Could you possibly shed some light on that, and what I noticed with Shadow Copies / restore showing disk usage despite there being no restore points?

I'll have a look at some of those guides but all I've really done so far is disable inessential startup, remove bundled apps, make my profile more secure and so on already.

I ran SFC and DISM which reported no problems; there's no sign of any other issues so I'm reluctant to really start fiddling around and lose all the setup I've done so far.
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Anonymous

2021-04-23T17:42:34+00:00

You may need to apportion more Disk Space as shown in the tutorials I gave you, if it's 5% now try 10 or 15% of the available space as you can afford it. This impacts how many restore points are saves when new ones are created.

You had mentioned that there might be a Dell app that overrides System Restore. I don't know what that could be and I own a Dell laptop I'm using now. I do only use Dell Update for keeping the hardware/BIOS updated and let it run when it prompts me periodically. It's fully explained here and you can install Dell Update from here if you don't see it in Start Menu:

https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000149...

If your model doesn't support Dell Update then it likely uses Dell Support Assist explained and downloaded from here if you don't have it installed:

https://www.dell.com/support/contents/us/en/04/...

Those are the only Dell bloatware I allow on my Dells and have never had a problem, never had it interfere with System Restore which I keep at 15% available space.
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Anonymous

2021-04-23T18:59:00+00:00
SupportAssist and Dell Update came installed on mine too.

I ran SupportAssist first to update some drivers; the graphics driver update caused a BSOD (dpc_watchdog_violation) on reboot each time.
I found I could only install the driver without this happening by manually downloading it from the Dell website and running it myself.

Now, SupportAssist is still telling me this same driver update is available, though I already have it installed.
Dell Update is also listing another update I installed (Smartbyte) as an older version than the one I actually installed through SupportAssist.
They otherwise have some useful features, but seem to be more trouble than they're worth! (at my end, at least)

I'm not quite sure about SA's restore points either. I've disabled them now and suspect they were causing the issues. The restore points SA created showed up in Windows's system restore, so presumably it has access to (and was possibly overriding) Microsoft's.
When I selected a specific restore point - in SA - it actually restored to a more recent restore point (I let it update a few drivers at once, thinking it would do so smartly).
I had to manually go into System Restore proper to actually revert the problematic update...

(Oh, I had SA at 15% for system restore too, but MS system restore was only 4%. I'm really not sure how the SA restore points operate, they're probably conflicting with the MS limit)

Running some other of the SA functions also changed some of my settings, which I didn't like either. I think I'll just stick to using the Dell website, which offers the same features (eg hardware scan) as far as I can tell.
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As for system restore, I can see lack of space being an issue - but in a case like that, why would it delete every restore point? Surely the point of deleting old restore points is to make room for the latest?  
There was absolutely nothing left there, though system restore was still set to being "On".  
  
(Again, I'll just assume SA was messing with it working properly...)  
  
I'm still not sure why System Restore shows space being used when there are no restore points, but I'll assume that's for other shadow copies (which I can't access - so I'm really not sure what their purpose is!)  
  
I only flushed this when I briefly turned system restore off, but it crept back up again prior to there actually being any restore points.  
  
PS thanks for your guide, I'll definitely bookmark it as there's a lot of handy info in there.  
  
PPS I said there were no other problems, but there were several other errors in Event Viewer. When I looked them up they seemed to be pretty common. There are always a lot of errors-that-aren't-errors there we're just advised to ignore...   
I'd prefer to have none, but hey ho~
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