System restore mysteries / shadow copies etc

Anonymous

Hi,

New Windows 10 user here.
Have Googled/Binged around and still a bit puzzled about this.

So, System Restore is defaulted to "Off" in Windows 10. I understand some of the reasons for this, but still find it a useful tool.
(I left it like that, since it's still fresh and can basically just factory reset at this point)

Restore settings mention "using system protection on a drive that contains system image backups will cause other shadow copies to be deleted faster than normal"

OK. I'm not sure how fast "normal" is meant to be...

My Windows 10 came with Dell's SupportAssist installed, which apparently has its own recovery tools. Using it to download/install a few drivers, I noticed it had enabled Windows' System Restore by itself and created some restore points there.
(This came in useful because SupportAssist's driver updates resulted in a BSOD every time! I'll be uninstalling it...)

What set me wondering though, is I later noticed some errors in Event Viewer

"The shadow copies ... were aborted because the shadow copy storage could not grow due to a user imposed limit"

So it's already full?

8.90GB was set aside and I've barely done anything besides customise my user account!

Installed nothing!!

I then checked and all my restore points had gone too
This was strange because there haven't been any Windows - or even driver - updates in the meantime (which is usually the reason against keeping old restore points, for compatibility etc..?)

So I'm not getting shadow copies, and I'm not getting restore points...

What was more odd, was system restore was saying there were no restore points, but Current Usage showed 400-600MB in use.
What is this being used for?

Are they all these functions competing for the same space?
(and is this space barely enough for more than 1 of them to work properly?)

I don't really understand a great deal about system image backups, shadow copies, or restore points generally... I just know I should be backing up in some way.
Ideally in a way I don't have to mircomanage...

So hopefully someone could explain

System Image Backup

I can just reset to factory settings / reinstall Windows can't I, if things got really bad?
Are there any likely cases where I wouldn't be able to?
Is there any advantage (for the average Joe) in making a separate recovery drive to boot from?

> When the above warning mentioned a drive with "system image backups" (plural), what did it mean?
Is Windows automatically making many new system images itself?
Are they available to me?
(beyond the factory reset)

Shadow copies

Where can I find these / how can I access them?
As long as I'm backing up my files regularly, I should mostly be fine.
But it would be nice to get back the *exact* content I lost in the event of a crash. So how do I do this?

System restore

I'd like to have something with this functionality, but not if it's preventing the above functions from working.
And I'm not into backing up my whole system to another drive on a daily basis, that seems like a lot of hassle

So basically, what's the best practice for low-effort safeguarding in the event of a failure to boot / hijack / loss of data etc?
I'm more confused than ever now

(I haven't noticed the shadow copy error in the last few days, and a new restore point was created. But I don't expect either to last like this for long...)

Thanks

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Anonymous

(1) Your ReagentC shows partition 4 to be the Windows Recovery Environment partition. Shift+Restart will reboot to its recovery tools ("Choose an Option" screen). Normally, the computer also goes there when it has failed to boot Windows three times in a row. But going by that article I found, your computer will go to Partition 6 instead...

https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-in/000177401/restore-your-system-using-dell-supportassist-os-recovery

Restore your system using Dell SupportAssist OS Recovery

I don't see it saying it is making images or even just doing an independent backup & restore of user files. All I see is that you can do a factory reset (to the version of Windows that is on partition 5) or a fresh install of the latest Windows 10. You don't really want a factory reset after you've advanced to a greater version of Windows. It not only brings back the old version but also all the pre-installed Dell/Microsoft apps you've uninstalled along the way. And a fresh install of the latest version of Windows keeping files is what a regular reset will do anyway (without Dell's help). In either case, it will allow you to backup user files in concert with the reset & restore them afterward (but not apps). But the files will need to be accessible, i.e., whatever caused the catastrophe better not have messed with them. That's how I read it.

A Windows system image is superior because files, apps, & settings all are in the image, & apps that were deleted remain deleted when the image is restored. Also, Firewall rules are restored to that day. Only the ones you've changed since then will have to be changed again. And system images don't take terabytes. My three together occupy just 83.1 GB. A 3rd-party app could compress them even more...

That day I had to restore an image, everything was back as/of the date the image was made. But the choice is yours. And now I think your setup does possibly survive an upgrade-install because things work through BIOS & partition 6 instead of messing with the Windows recovery partition. But I really can't say for sure.

(2) That's right, Disk Management can't move a partition, & it can't expand a partition except into unallocated space immediately to the right of it. That's why a 3rd-party app is needed, but there's a bunch to choose from. It would have been nice had Dell decided to give us stuff Windows didn't already have on its own, but they didn't. If they ever do give us a partition manager, it likely will only do what Disk Management can already do.

(3) Yep, my DCOMCFG looks just like yours. Let us hope the VSS errors stay gone with Support Assist. But they almost sounded as if they could be ignored anyway. It certainly didn't keep you from getting a ton of shadow copies.

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Answer accepted by question author

Anonymous

DISKPART> List Part

Partition ### Type Size Offset

------------- ------------ --------- -------

Partition 1 System 250 MB 1024 KB <<<EFI system partition

Partition 2 Reserved 128 MB 251 MB <<<MSR (Microsoft Reserved)

Partition 3 Primary 222 GB 379 MB <<<Windows partition

Partition 4 Recovery 990 MB 222 GB <<<Recovery Environment partition

Partition 5 Recovery 13 GB 223 GB <<<Factory reinstall partition

Partition 6 Recovery 1309 MB 237 GB <<<Or is this the RE partition?

Let's see "ReagentC /Info" at an Admin Command Prompt. It will point to either partition 4 or 6 as the active Recovery Environment partition (Shift+Restart goes there)...

C:\WINDOWS\system32>ReagentC /Info

Windows Recovery Environment (Windows RE) and system reset configuration

Information:

Windows RE status: Enabled

Windows RE location: \?\GLOBALROOT\device\harddisk0*partition4*\Recovery\WindowsRE

Boot Configuration Data (BCD) identifier: f8d976fc-df94-11ea-b1d0-74e6e2074932

Recovery image location:

Recovery image index: 0

Custom image location:

Custom image index: 0

REAGENTC.EXE: Operation Successful.

I think yours is partition 4 like mine. Then both partition 5 & 6 are expendable as soon as you begin to make system images of your own. I guess we could put a letter on partition 6 to see what's in it first...

DiskPart

Select Disk 0

Select Part 6

Assign Letter=X <<<Put letter X on partition 6

Exit

DIR X:\ /a /s <<<Show contents of X:. Remove "/s" to show just the root directory.

DiskPart

Select Vol=X

Remove Letter=X <<<Remove the letter X

Exit

Partitions 5 & 6 can be deleted with DiskPart. Then a 3rd-party app will be required to move partition 4 fully rightward over the 14.3 GB of newly unallocated space. Finally, Disk Management can expand C:partition into that space. But we'd want you to be comfortable with Windows system images of your own (onto an external HDD) before doing so. I think Greg gave you instructions how to use Macrium Reflect. And that could indeed be worthwhile. But I am still a believer in Windows own image maker...

To backup the entire computer, make a Windows system image backup. It makes a backup of all the Windows partitions required to boot & run Windows: EFI, MSR, Windows (C:), & Recovery. If you've got additional partition(s), they will also be offered for inclusion. (But likely that Dell factory reinstall partition won't be offered). A 2 TB external HDD is large enough to never fill with images. An 8 GB flash drive should be large enough to hold a Recovery drive (used to restore an image).

I make one after each new OS Build comes in & runs well, & I keep the last three...

I rename the computername folder which is inside the WindowsImageBackup folder (by appending the OS Build to it) in order to keep them separate & distinct. All three will be offered during the restore process.

Make it at "START, Settings, Update & Security, Backup, Go to backup & Restore (Win 7), Create a system image". Afterward, make the Repair Disc or (even better) ask Cortana for Recovery Drive to put it on USB. That can be used to do a restore. Then see the following to know how to restore one...

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-update/how-to-restore-a-windows-10-system-image-to-an/e20992ca-5641-4f7c-bb09-3895d0732162

How to restore a Windows 10 system image to an existing or larger storage device

https://www.winhelp.us/restore-a-system-image-in-windows-7.html

Restore a System Image Backup in Windows 7, 8, 8.1 and 10

Note: That is an informative 3rd-party site, but I know nothing (good or bad) about any downloads or links that are there (or anywhere else).

If your external hard drive (or the internal one I guess) is a Seagate or Maxtor, there will be a free version of Acronis True Image at their site. Seagate calls it DiscWizard. Macrium Reflect, AOMEI Backupper & others also offer free versions of their image makers. These 3rd-party apps are quicker, make more compact images, & are more flexible in use. But the Windows version works in under 15 minutes on my small & uncomplicated system. I must add, DiscWizard's Bootable Media (to restore an image when Windows won't boot) requires a Mouse to operate. Plug one in, & it is instantly recognized.

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61 additional answers

Anonymous

2021-04-22T05:56:16+00:00

Hi Elias. I'm Greg, awarded MVP for eleven years, Volunteer Moderator, and Independent Advisor here to help you until this is resolved. g

System Restore is your first line of defense if Windows ever malfunctions as it can run even from recovery media to get you back before a problem started. It should always be turned on C drive with plenty of disk space (5-15%) configured. Here's how to check and when necessary how to run System Restore: https://www.windowscentral.com/how-use-system-r...

System Restore should not default to Off, it is intended to be turned on after every Update and Version Update - although Version Updates wipe out all Restore Points since they are technically reinstall Upgrades. It's been several years since MVP's advocated to developers to stop turning System Restore off in Updates so if you find it defaulting to off you have to have a really old version or something seriously corrupted.

The problem could be caused by WIndows System Image backup which is no longer supported nor is it recommended by any expert anywhere. Instead I would use free Macrium Reflect, which is the choice of all experts because it is flexible and just works. More here:

https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/7363/macrium-re...

http://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/29/the-best-way-t...

http://knowledgebase.macrium.com/display/KNOW/C...

Macrium should also not mess with your System Restore points.

You asked about backup specifically. The safest and most reliable backup method is to sort your files into their User Folders (Documents, Desktop, Pictures, Downloads, etc) and periodically drag or copy them to external or another hard drive. See tips for copying large groups of files here: https://www.pcworld.com/article/2086566/the-man...

Then have one other Cloud backup so your files are safe from fire and theft and easily accessible via the internet just like email. Some suggestions to help ease into this habit:

You can drag or copy 5gb for free into OneDrive app to store in the cloud where they are safe from fire and theft. You can also choose to sync the Desktop, Pictures and Documents folders (only) in OneDrive app Settings > Backup for real time backup. More here: https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/116029-turn...

If you install Google Drive, you can use their new Backup to choose ANY User folders (Documents, Pictures, etc.) to sync up to 15g for free to their cloud in real time. You can also drag/copy selected files into Drive folder. More here:

https://www.blog.google/products/photos/introdu...

Besides your files you should back up a System Image to use in place of reinstall in 20 minutes. The best free alternative is Macrium: http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/7363/macrium-ref....

There is an easy way to mount the System Image to extract files if needed. Some prefer to move their User folders off of C to make the image smaller and so they stay current if you need to re-image C. Here's how: http://www.dummies.com/computers/operating-syst...

This way if Windows ever becomes irreparable you can restore C in 20 minutes from recovery media, and your files will be current and safe in their own separate partition. If they are left on C they will be dated from when the image was taken.

Another useful built-in backup is to schedule daily Volume Shadow snapshots which will make every file have a daily backup on it's Properties > Previous Versions tab:

https://pureinfotech.com/enable-previous-versio...

I regularly recover lost Sticky Notes this way from it's backup location here:

https://www.majorgeeks.com/content/page/how_to_...

I hope this helps. Feel free to ask back any questions and keep me posted. If you'll wait to rate whether my post helped you, I will keep working with you until it's resolved.

________________________________________________________

Standard Disclaimer: There are links to non-Microsoft websites. The pages appear to be providing accurate, safe information. Watch out for ads on the sites that may advertise products frequently classified as a PUP (Potentially Unwanted Products). Thoroughly research any product advertised on the sites before you decide to download and install it.
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Anonymous

2021-04-22T17:32:29+00:00
Thanks Greg

It's a brand new computer (but not a cutting edge new model) - System Restore was off when I first looked at it (and gave that warning when I tried to turn it on), so I don't think the issue would be corruption or being outdated?
Possibly this is the Dell app taking things into its own hands... would there be any way of checking?
(SFC & DISM showed no issues)

Since it turned itself on, it seems to have stayed on
However as mentioned it deleted all the restore points of its own accord.

It was defaulted to 4% (8.90GB) usage, which should have been enough at this point
- like I said, I haven't installed anything yet, and have no personal files on the computer yet.
Even if this wasn't enough for several restore points (4 were actually listed as available at one point) - why did it not keep just the latest?

And can you think why disk usage would be showing over 600MB in use by System Restore, when there were no restore points?*

*I since did a bit of checking with CMD, and discovered 3 shadow copies in my system, only the last of which was "user accessible" (I can't remember the exact phrase) - ie a new restore point had been created. So presumably shadow copies take up the listed space, even if we can't access them. What's the story with these unlisted shadow copies? Why is Windows creating intermediate ones, if they can't be used? (or can they?)
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Thanks so much for the rest of the info; I should get into better habits for backing up my files and was planning to start using the cloud more. I tended to ignore the Previous Versions option before (can't remember why!) but will look into that too. I'll consider making System Images a bit later on (when I've actually installed more things worth recovering!)   
  
As for troublesome Windows updates - System Restore is no longer an option, but Microsoft suggests we can just uninstall Windows updates that cause issues... is it really just as easy as that? (I half expect to run into problems doing this)   
  
PS sorry for asking about quite a broad range of things
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Anonymous

2021-04-23T02:58:06+00:00

Elias -

There is no reason System Restore should not turn on. If it doesn't then Windows is corrupted and needs repair.

Go into System Protection and enable System Restore for C drive with 5-15% disk space as much as you can afford. Follow these guides to get it set and stable:

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-use-system-r...

https://www.xtremerain.com/fix-windows-system-r...

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/3-check-system-re...

https://www.acronis.com/en-us/articles/windows-...

https://www.easeus.com/backup-recovery/windows-...

If those fixes don't work then Go over this checklist to make sure the install is set up correctly, optimized for best performance, and any needed repairs get done: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wiki...

Start with Step 4 to turn off Startup freeloaders which can conflict and cause issues, then Step 7 to check for infection the most thorough way, then step 10 to check for damaged System Files, and also Step 17 to test a new Local Admin account. Then if necessary continue with the other steps to go over your install most thoroughly.

If nothing else works then do a Repair Install, by installing Media Creation Tool, open tool and choose to Upgrade Now. This reinstalls Windows while keeping files, programs and most settings in place, is the most stable method to advance to the latest version, and solves most problems. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/m...
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