Windows 10 feature update with old Nvidia display adapters, solution to black screen hangs

Anonymous
2020-06-01T14:28:46+00:00

Microsoft is delaying Windows 10 2004 on computers that have old Nvidia display adapters.  This is a step in the right direction.

In fact it is possible to run Windows 10 on computers that have some old Nvidia display adapters, but it takes some effort.  I have some Dell Precision M6500 workstations with Nvidia Quadro FX 3800M and FX 2800 M controllers (sometimes designated NB10E).  Driver 342.01 can be downloaded from Nvidia's web site.  It takes some effort to make the driver stable, which I will discuss below.  Dell's web site provides 189.21 for Windows 7, designated as ISV certified, whose meaning I don't know but it was more stable than versions that came later, except that it occasionally caused BSODs and it had security holes.  Nvidia continued developing the Quadro driver for several years but didn't do enough testing.  Dell doesn't care, why should Dell care about peons who buy such cheap low class throwaway PCs?

Anyway, these models of Nvidia display adapters had a feature built into their hardware called PowerMizer.  When the PC is idle, the chip operated min minimum performance, maximum stability, low power mode.  When demands became more active, the chip switched to medium power or high power mode, but the chip couldn't handle the transition, so the screen turned black.  Dell's forums and some other sites have lots of discussions of M6500 screens turning black under heavy load.  To add to this, the driver couldn't handle the hardware crash.  Instead of resetting the display adapter like Microsoft learned to do in Windows 7, Nvidia's drivers crash the rest of Windows.  The keyboard and mouse become non-responsive, though you can see the hard drive lamp continue flashing for a while until some part of Windows settles down.

Very old Nvidia drivers (older than the ones we're discussing here) provided a GUI control panel where users could manage PowerMizer options to try to improve stability.  Nvidia stopped offering PowerMizer Manager a long time ago.

A third party stepped in and provided a downloadable PowerMizer Manager tool.  They recommend that users set PowerMizer to medium performance so the chip will never try to switch power levels, and disable detection of overheating.  I'm sure these settings stabilize the chip and driver and Windows, but I'm more cautious.  I use PowerMizer Manager to set PowerMizer to minimum performance and I do not disable detection of overheating.  When I install Nvidia's driver 342.01 and use PowerMizer Manager this way, my computers do not suffer black screen hangs.

Now about Windows 10.  Some feature updates of Windows 10 preserve the registry settings that were added by PowerMizer Manager.  However, some feature updates delete the registry settings.  After deleting the registry settings, when the Windows 10 feature update installer reboots the PC, you get the black screen hang at the time when Windows tried to display its message about do not turn off your PC.

Therefore one more step is needed.

When starting the feature update, of course you want your PC plugged in as well as having the battery fully charged.  But after the reboot, when Windows is about to let you log in, pull the plug.  When running on battery, the Nvidia chip will refrain from trying to switch to high power mode.  If your battery is still good enough, it will let you reach the point of logging in and running PowerMizer Manager to set the necessary registry entries again, and reboot.  At that point you can plug your PC in again.

So, there is a way that Nvidia or Dell could stabilize the Quadro FX 3800M and FX 2800 M chips enough to solve the black screen problem, at the cost of lower performance which we have to do anyway to avoid the problem.  But again, why would Nvidia or Dell care?

Now, surprise of surprises, Microsoft says they're working on the problem.  After several rounds of Windows 10 feature updates reinstaing the problem (though some feature updates didn't reinstate the problem because they preserved the necessary registry entries), now Microsoft says they care.  So, it would be possible for Microsoft to preserve the registry entries that are set by PowerMizer Manager.  It would even be possible for Microsoft's Windows 10 feature update installer to create those entries all on its own, to improve Windows 10 reliability on computer that have Nvidia Quadro FX 3800M and FX 2800 M controllers.  I don't know if they'll really care, but it's interesting to see an announcement saying they care.

Meanwhile, this posting tried to explain how we can deal with it ourselves.

Windows for home | Windows 10 | Install and upgrade

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  1. Anonymous
    2021-03-11T19:22:41+00:00

    OK, I will give it try and test it, Silviu. Thanks a lot of Your reply! And yes it is a wonderful laptop with RGB LED Backlight. Cheers Mark!

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  2. Anonymous
    2021-03-11T17:19:49+00:00

    Windows automatically installed drivers 342.01.

    There is no PowerMizer registry entry.

    Keep in mind that my laptop would not boot even with Microsoft Basic Driver with the 2020 version. I mean, I couldn't even boot the installer.

    Now everything works fine. I tried Google Chrome, Firefox, everything is ok. 

    The GPU clocks also vary according to GPU utilisation.

    So all in all, it looks like this laptop will continue to work for another few years with Windows 10.

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  3. Anonymous
    2021-03-11T13:45:31+00:00

    There is no meaning to blocking downloading of drivers. Nvidia's driver version 342.01 was released around 5 years ago and will never be updated. It is the only version that can be made to operate reliably in Windows 10, and the way to make it operate reliably has been to use PowerMizer Manager to put settings in the registry to control the driver's PowerMizer.

    One problem has been that some feature updates to Windows 10 delete the registry entries so we have to run PowerMizer Manager again after the reboot but before a blackout occurs.

    If you remove Nvidia's driver then you might be able to use the Microsoft Basic Display Driver. I don't recommend such a silly thing and I don't know if it works.

    (Speaking of the Microsoft Basic Display Driver, I have a different computer that needs it. Windows 7 could use Intel's driver in Windows XP compatibility mode and use the screen's native resolution of 1400 x 1050. Windows 10 deletes Windows XP compatibility mode so it can't use Intel's driver, and the Microsoft Basic Display Driver ignores the screen's native resolution of 1400 x 1050 and uses 1280 x 1024. Yes I know Microsoft wants me to upgrade from Windows to Linux. But sometimes I have to check that my programs still work on a 32 bit CPU.)

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  4. Anonymous
    2021-03-11T11:32:12+00:00

    Ok Norman,

    I think we meant PowerMizer Manager not the Power Mizer driver, which will be installed automtically. Until now the system breaks with blackouts when GPU is changing speed modus. PowerMizer Manager fix chip`s speed in the registry and therefore no blackscreens. I am complete with you. But as it seems SilviuT.'s install of 2021H1 Win 10 with Nvidia's FX 3800 driver needs no more modifcations of registry with PowerMizer Manager. That will be great! Cheers!

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  5. VARADHARAJAN K 9,726 Reputation points Volunteer Moderator
    2021-03-11T07:49:32+00:00

    i don't have your model graphics card.

    but my idea is to block the downloading drivers through windows update and installing automatically.

    remove problem driver version and block the driver update using registry key or by group policy editor.

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