Trouble Making Image Backup with Acronia True Image 2016 -- apparent misread of space

Here’s my thought. If this miraculously works to get rid of the bad sectors — a very long shot — then I think what to do would be to make it the size of part 6, and bring both items in part 6 over to the new, larger part 5. Then do same delete and recreate to part 6 in order to get rid of those bad sectors, once gone, then we can delete it and move the space to C. Why separate the two things on two different partitions, and leave the one partitions with bad sectors?

If it doesn’t get rid of the bad sectors, the likelier scenario, then I don’t really see any point in moving (copying) the wim file from part 6. For what benefit? We could, but why bother? Simply leave the empty part there to hold the bad sectors, and never bother imaging it, nothing on it.

1. I’m a bit confused. Is it finally called part 5 and in part 5 location?

I expect it created it between 3 and 4 because it took the space from 3.

Is DiskPart some third party application you have? What you’re doing isn’t necessarily going to work the same for me if not using the same applications.

So, you created a new part. Then you deleted and recreated it? Why? Then you did something to make it a Recovery part.

What about the original Recovery partition? Simply deleting that and instead using a new partition doesn’t do anything to magically get rid of the bad sectors, they are still there. The only point I see in bothering to do this is the long shot it might get rid of bad sectors. If it doesn’t then the rest of the effort just seems like “make work” to me. But we can find that out only after trying.

——

final cod:

so first we delete the partition — I guess it goes to unallocated space. Then we create the partition, and it uses that unallocated space? OK.

The copy X (part 6) Recovery to R (art 5) Recovery. So copying everything from Part 6 to 5? Or, how does it know to take only the wim? Although in the end, might want to bring over the esd too, later, depends on results, first and mainly of whether we get rid of bad sectors.

Maybe can get to this later today.

——

Oh, another one. Issues — good you caught them.

Not clear, did you work out how to get it right?

I think there is not point in doing it except the long shot of magically eliminating the bad partitions. If it does that, I’m fine with moving the the wim over, and even the esd, and 6 can just be a dead volume, or better, we can same to 6 to get rid of the bad sectors and then add its space to C.

(1) Here are your two problems as I see it...

(a) Right, it is hoped by deleting Partition 5 & recreating it, Acronis will no longer find bad sectors in it. The recreated partition will occupy the same sectors as the deleted one had occupied.

I can't tell whether (a) was solved. But your Partition 5 is currently not used at all. If you don't want to transform it into the Active recovery partition, then just delete it with Partition Magic & bring it back as a regular partition (not a recovery partition). Then see whether Acronis likes it. But remember always to reboot after doing partition work like that.

(b) It just can't be right that each fit & proper system image you make of Win 10 must include that dinosaur of a Gateway Win 8 in it. The way to prevent that is to make Partition 5 your active Recovery partition.

What I did definitely solves (b). See how Windows system image backup now requires my new Recovery Tools (X:) to be in the image, but the old WinRE 2004 (R:) is offered as an optional...

It would require Partition 5 for you & offer Partition 6 as optional. You need make just one image backup of Partition 6 because it never will change from 2012. But Partition 5 will change (at least) whenever an upgrade/repair-install is done.

But a peculiar side effect is that your Partition 6 will no longer have a WinRE.wim in it. I think all else will remain. Nothing in my instructions wipes it away, but it goes. Also, Partition 5 will have a Recycle Bin that apparently will hold the recovery files we XCOPY into the partition. But that is harmless & could disappear on its own in time. It suggests something causes Windows, itself, to put recovery files into Partition 5 & throw ours into the Bin.

[Edit: I no longer think my Xcopied files were put into the Recycle Bin, but possibly they did get over-written with a new set provided by ReagentC.]

Another peculiarity is that it took two tries with Shift+Restart before the new Recovery partition worked well. But I think that's due to I forgot to reboot after my partition work in DiskPart before doing ReagentC to point to the new one. And/or I should have booted once to Windows before trying Shift+Restart.

I'll post the ReagentC procedure that does all that below.

(2) "I’m a bit confused. Is it finally called part 5 and in part 5 location?"

Yes, but best do a reboot after partition work like that to be sure the system really knows it. I've been meaning to bring this up, myself. The instructions were...

Select Part 5

Delete Partition

Create Partition Primary

I think it might be recreating the partition into the newly created unallocated space (from the Delete command) because the focus is still on it from the Select command. But possibly/probably it puts it back into that space because there is no other unallocated space on your HDD (or mine) that precedes it. If there were, we'd have to consider an additional parameter/two in that Create command, like giving it a Size or Offset...

SIZE=<N>    The size of the partition in megabytes (MB). If no size is

                given, the partition continues until there is no more

                unallocated space in the current region.

OFFSET=<N>  The offset, in kilobytes (KB), at which the partition is created.

                If no offset is given, the partition is placed in the first disk

                extent that is large enough to hold it.

OMG, who wants to go figure KB's? So, we are lucky to have only the one span of unallocated space & just the right size (after our Delete). Or, best use a 3rd-party tool for it, & just do the SET ID in DiskPart.

(3) "So, you created a new part. Then you deleted and recreated it? Why? Then you did something to make it a Recovery part."

I did it just to see whether it would work to possibly solve the two problems you've got. But also I learned from it & might learn more when I undo it. And DiskPart is part of Windows.

(4) "The copy X (part 6) Recovery to R (art 5) Recovery. So copying everything from Part 6 to 5? Or, how does it know to take only the wim?"

XCOPY  X:\Recovery  R:\Recovery  /E  /I  /H  /K  /X

That copies the Recovery folder & all it contents & subfolders from partition X: to R:. That includes the WinRE.wim. Nothing else is copied. But I believe something caused Windows to put all those files into the Recycle Bin it created on R:\ & replace them with its own set. I'm going to experiment with ReagentC to see whether it will put a set a files back into my original partition w/o having to do an XCOPY.

(5) "Not clear, did you work out how to get it right?"

Definitely, I'll get my files back into my original partition one way or another. And ReagentC will point to it. Maybe I'll delete both partitions & try a repair-install.

(6) Here is the ReagentC procedure that I used to redirect the location of RE from my Partition 5 to the new Partition 4. But it won't do it in reverse because it can't find the Path to partition5 \Recovery\WindowsRE which no longer exists as a surprise to me. The Recovery folder is there, but not the other.

C:\WINDOWS\system32>ReagentC /Info

Windows Recovery Environment (Windows RE) and system reset configuration

Information:

    Windows RE status:         Enabled

    Windows RE location:       \?\GLOBALROOT\device\harddisk0*partition5*\Recovery\WindowsRE

    Boot Configuration Data (BCD) identifier: d1890737-c25c-11ea-b1a7-74e6e2074932

    Recovery image location:

    Recovery image index:      0

    Custom image location:

    Custom image index:        0

REAGENTC.EXE: Operation Successful.

C:\WINDOWS\system32>ReagentC /Disable

REAGENTC.EXE: Operation Successful.

C:\WINDOWS\system32>ReagentC /Info

Windows Recovery Environment (Windows RE) and system reset configuration

Information:

    Windows RE status:         Disabled

    Windows RE location:

    Boot Configuration Data (BCD) identifier: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000

    Recovery image location:

    Recovery image index:      0

    Custom image location:

    Custom image index:        0

REAGENTC.EXE: Operation Successful.

C:\WINDOWS\system32>DiskPart

Microsoft DiskPart version 10.0.19041.1

Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation.

On computer: PCRSCOMPUTER

DISKPART> Select Disk 0

Disk 0 is now the selected disk.

DISKPART> List Part

  Partition ###  Type              Size     Offset

  -------------  ----------------  -------  -------

  Partition 1    System              99 MB    32 KB

  Partition 2    Reserved            16 MB   100 MB

  Partition 3    Primary            929 GB   116 MB

  Partition 4    Recovery           827 MB   929 GB

  Partition 5    Recovery           847 MB   930 GB

DISKPART> Select Part 4

Partition 4 is now the selected partition.

DISKPART> Assign Letter=R

DiskPart successfully assigned the drive letter or mount point.

DISKPART> List Vol

  Volume ###  Ltr  Label        Fs     Type        Size     Status     Info

  ----------  ---  -----------  -----  ----------  -------  ---------  --------

  Volume 0     D                       DVD-ROM         0 B  No Media

  Volume 1     C   PCR Hard     NTFS   Partition    929 GB  Healthy    Boot

  Volume 2     R   Recovery To  NTFS   Partition    827 MB  Healthy

  Volume 3         WinRE 2004   NTFS   Partition    847 MB  Healthy

  Volume 4         ESP          FAT32  Partition     99 MB  Healthy    System

DISKPART> Exit

Leaving DiskPart...

C:\WINDOWS\system32>ReagentC /SetREImage /Path R:\Recovery\WindowsRE /Target C:\Windows

Directory set to: \?\GLOBALROOT\device\harddisk0*partition4*\Recovery\WindowsRE

REAGENTC.EXE: Operation Successful.

C:\WINDOWS\system32>ReagentC /Enable

REAGENTC.EXE: Operation Successful.

C:\WINDOWS\system32>ReagentC /Info

Windows Recovery Environment (Windows RE) and system reset configuration Information:

    Windows RE status:         Enabled

    Windows RE location:       \?\GLOBALROOT\device\harddisk0*partition4*\Recovery\WindowsRE

    Boot Configuration Data (BCD) identifier: de89953b-cd80-11ea-b1b2-74e6e2074932

    Recovery image location:

    Recovery image index:      0

    Custom image location:

    Custom image index:        0

REAGENTC.EXE: Operation Successful.

C:\WINDOWS\system32>DiskPart

Microsoft DiskPart version 10.0.19041.1

Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation.

On computer: PCRSCOMPUTER

DISKPART> Select Disk 0

Disk 0 is now the selected disk.

DISKPART> List Part

  Partition ###  Type              Size     Offset

  -------------  ----------------  -------  -------

  Partition 1    System              99 MB    32 KB

  Partition 2    Reserved            16 MB   100 MB

  Partition 3    Primary            929 GB   116 MB

  Partition 4    Recovery           827 MB   929 GB

  Partition 5    Recovery           847 MB   930 GB

DISKPART> Select Part 4

Partition 4 is now the selected partition.

DISKPART> Remove Letter=R

DiskPart successfully removed the drive letter or mount point.

DISKPART> Exit

Leaving DiskPart...

Next time I'll do a reboot to Windows here -- before trying Shift+Restart.

1. A0 es, I was figuring delete, bring back. Then run chkdsk, it will only take less than a minute. Then boot form Acronis and see if it sees it as bad sectors. If not, great, proceed to making it a Recovery partition. And I think bring over both of the files from part 6. Then delete bad bring back, see if those bad sectors are gone, if so, delete it and move the space to C.

If the bad sectors remain, I still don’t see the gain from bringing the one file over to part 5, its doing fine on part 6 now.

I”m still not clear why you think there is some advantage to putting the one file on part 5.

b) I think you’re saying to make a separate image of part 6 on the external drive and leave it there. And then when I back up, just back up 1-5. The benefit is that much faster to back up. That’s true, although its not a lot of backup, 15 GB out of about 170 GB. But its that much faster, yeas, That makes sense. I still do always think of the rule, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. but maybe we can set that aside this time. I’ll think on it. Let’s see if we get rid of the bad sectors first.

Oh, it requires the Recovery partition with the wim file to be backed up. Hmm. Interesting, But that just confirms that creation is good. So, good job!

Oh, yes, and now you are explaining what I just said about part 6.

I thought you said we would COPY the WinRE.wim from 6 to5, but the one on 6 will no longer be active. only the one on 5. Now you seem to be saying we will be deleting it from 6. You say noting in in your code wipes it, but it disappears anyway? Well, your code says “copy,” but it is not copying, it is moving. Yes, how is there a recycle bin in part 5? I gather that is because if did bring over the file form part 6, and it can’t have two of the same on the same partition. And we can’t delete that? sop now we need twice as much space to accommodate that. Hmm. I have the space, but gee. If I leave it on part 6, I don’t have to lose an irrelevant 800+ MB of space. So, a small amount of space vs. a small extra amount of time making an image. :)

Yes, it didn’t work at first, took a couple tries. And I can’t even do it via shift + startup, I have to do it from Settings. (BTW, I’m in a Acer forum asking about that. NO answers so far. Acer now owns Gateway.) But yes, restart after every partition work.

2. Yes, reboot.

Well, I will do the full delete, create before rebooting. and I certainly hope we don’t have to do anything else regarding that.

OK, good, DiskPart is part of Windows, I hoped you would say that. When I’m running these commands in Command Prompt, Disk Part is what it will be using . OK.

OK, that line of code: could it be that the command XCOPY X:\Recovery R:}Recovery is all we should do, that will take the folder and its contents. I SUSPECT the rest of the letters are identifying stuff in the folder? And so it is asking for it twice? And getting it twice, second one in a recycle bin? Maybe that’s the issue. Would be nice to know before doing it and being stuck with the recycle bin. I guess it depends on if the five letters at the end of the line of code are for the content of the Recovery file. Well, if it were that, then the folder would simply be copied, and the original left on Part 6.

That’s a LOAD of code for the Reagent bit!

EDIT: Actually, I don't think we dare delete and recreate part 6. It's labled as Push Button, and we don't even whht that is, I don't know that we can create another "push button" partition, it might not work. Who knows what that is? Maybe it's just a partition name, nothing more? The only thing different on there is the gateway stuff.

(1) Yeah, delete Partition 5 with either DiskPart or Partition Wizard. Then bring it back as a Simple partition formatted NTFS. See whether Acronis likes it, & make decisions from there.

(2) "Oh, it requires the Recovery partition with the wim file to be backed up. Hmm. Interesting, But that just confirms that creation is good. So, good job!"

It worked, but was sloppy. Now I've found a C:\Windows\Logs\ReAgent\Reagent.log that was made when I did that. Work was done that probably did require a reboot before it would take effect. And it looks like "ReagentC /Disable" is what emptied my original Recovery partition. That needs to be left out for you since you want them to stay there. I'm still working on it. Not sure whether we actually need to do the XCOPY either. I'll have to play with it. It does look like ReagentC may come up with files of its own to move to the new Recovery partition.

So, I hope to find a way to activate your Partition 5 without losing the files from Partition 6. You can decide what to do with backups after that. You'll have a choice whether to include Partition 6 or not.

(3) "I can’t even do it via shift + startup"

You should be able to do that. Keep us informed what the Acer community has to say.

(4) "I SUSPECT the rest of the letters are identifying stuff in the folder? And so it is asking for it twice? And getting it twice, second one in a recycle bin?"

(a) Try "XCOPY  /?" at a Command Prompt to see what the letters do.

(b) I strongly suspect, after I did the XCOPY, one of my ReagentC commands tossed them into the Recycle Bin. Then it put its own files into there. But it hasn't quite admitted it that I can see...

2020-07-24 03:39:23, Info    [ReAgentc.exe] ------------------------------------------------------

2020-07-24 03:39:23, Info    [ReAgentc.exe] -----Executing command line: ReagentC  /SetREImage /Path R:\Recovery\WindowsRE /Target C:\Windows-----

2020-07-24 03:39:23, Info    [ReAgentc.exe] ------------------------------------------------------

2020-07-24 03:39:23, Info    [ReAgentc.exe] Enter WinReSetConfig

2020-07-24 03:39:23, Info    [ReAgentc.exe] Parameters: configWinDir: C:\Windows

2020-07-24 03:39:23, Info    [ReAgentc.exe] Update enhanced config info is enabled.

2020-07-24 03:39:23, Warning   [ReAgentc.exe] Failed to get recovery entries: 0xc0000225

2020-07-24 03:39:23, Info    [ReAgentc.exe] winreGetWinReGuid returning 0X490

2020-07-24 03:39:23, Info    [ReAgentc.exe] ReAgentConfig::ReadBcdAndUpdateEnhancedConfigInfo WinRE disabled, WinRE Guid could not be determined  (0x490) 

2020-07-24 03:39:23, Info    [ReAgentc.exe] WinRE is not installed, nothing to back up

2020-07-24 03:39:23, Info    [ReAgentc.exe] Exit WinReSetConfig return value: 1, last error: 0x0

2020-07-24 03:39:23, Info    [ReAgentc.exe] Enter WinReGetConfig

2020-07-24 03:39:23, Info    [ReAgentc.exe] Parameters: configWinDir: C:\Windows

2020-07-24 03:39:23, Info    [ReAgentc.exe] WinRE config file path: C:\Windows\system32\Recovery\ReAgent.xml

2020-07-24 03:39:23, Info    [ReAgentc.exe] Update enhanced config info is enabled.

2020-07-24 03:39:23, Warning    [ReAgentc.exe] Failed to get recovery entries: 0xc0000225

2020-07-24 03:39:23, Info    [ReAgentc.exe] winreGetWinReGuid returning 0X490

2020-07-24 03:39:23, Info    [ReAgentc.exe] ReAgentConfig::ReadBcdAndUpdateEnhancedConfigInfo WinRE disabled, WinRE Guid could not be determined  (0x490) 

2020-07-24 03:39:23, Info    [ReAgentc.exe] WinRE is staged

2020-07-24 03:39:23, Info    [ReAgentc.exe] Wim dir location: \?\GLOBALROOT\device\harddisk0*partition4*\Recovery\WindowsRE

2020-07-24 03:39:23, Info    [ReAgentc.exe] System is WimBoot: FALSE

2020-07-24 03:39:23, Info    [ReAgentc.exe] Exit WinReGetConfig return value: 1, last error: 0x0

2020-07-24 03:39:23, Info    [ReAgentc.exe] ------------------------------------------------------

So, tomorrow I'll play with it a bit to see whether I can get the files back onto my partition 5 without losing them from my new Partition 4.

Hi,

You might want to check your options with Acronis first, but I am 99% certain that you can delete both the Recovery and Push Button partitions, and then restore them later from your old image if needed... I have had no issues restoring individual partitions with Acronis..

Or just delete the Recovery and reformat it with Partition Wizard, and see how Acronis responds to the sector issue.. You could also use Disk Management to reformat the unallocated space after deleting it with Partition Wizard, which may be better for compatibility purposes..

Nothing will end up on your C:\ partition as long as you do not expand it yet..

This will confirm or deny the entire issue of bad sectors vs bad data for instance.. The data may not be bad itself, but just the coding that identifies it to Acronis..