Trouble Making Image Backup with Acronia True Image 2016 -- apparent misread of space

(1) "OK to install OS 8, it will give me the Gateway, then I just use my disk to bring it back up to current Win 10 level."

(a) We don't know you'll ever find that button to start the thing. I think there is a special F-key that will get to a menu from which you may make the selection. It's also possible "Troubleshoot > Reset This PC" will do it instead of resetting to the most current Win 10.

(b) Your first trek from Win 8 to 2004 was gradual through all the intervening versions. Many changes came to OneDrive, the Store & its apps, the browser, etc., bit by bit, not to mention the driver changes. Doing it all in one fell swoop from Win 8 to 2004 might involve too many gyrations to succeed.

(c) Why even think it, when we know you can make & restore Win 10 images of your own that are fully updated & fine-tuned to your purposes? You should make periodic images with your go-to image maker. And make one less frequently with a secondary image maker, just in case Acronis should fail the next time you really need it.

(d) It's OK to let partition 6 just sit there except for one thing: Windows has chosen to put its new WinRE.wim's into it. That makes it the official Recovery partition. And a fit & proper system image  backup includes EFI, MSR, Windows, & Recovery.

The Recovery partition need be only around 800 MB in size -- but yours is 15.72 GB! That is the main reason your Acronis .tib is enormous compared to mine. Also, you don't get the same compression ratio I do I guess because an Install.wim isn't amenable to it. So my 40 GB of used space compresses to half that much, & yours compresses just slightly. And your Windows system image backup would also be huge & slower to make. But it still really shouldn't be hours to make, I don't know what's up with that.

Therefore, at least we should make partition 5 the active Recovery partition. Then partition 6 will really just sit there. You may make a separate image of it just once, then forget it. But the Recovery partition needs to be included in every fit & proper Windows system image backup. That is why it was selected for you on page 2 of this thread & could not be unselected...

BTW, the MSR partition doesn't show up in that list, but it is included into (C:) & separated out during a restore operation.

(2) "I have never backed up unallocated space."

I think we should delete, then recreate partition 5. That might shake things up under the hood to make Acronis start to like it. I really don't like the fact that Acronis gives that error message even though you unchecked "Back up unallocated space". We know for sure CHKDSK said all the occupied sectors were supposedly good: "0 KB in bad sectors".

1a) Yes, I was expecting that is strictly for Troubleshoot/Reset This PC. That might even be the “button” it’s referring to.

1b) Well, I don’t think so. People wanting to upgrade now to Win10 go straight to the current level.

1c) I don’t know what that was question about. But yes, I do make periodic images of the drive. That is what I would use to reinstall all. That’s what I said. I did have to reinstall all that way about a year ago.

1d) I think you are saying using the Acronis image is better than using the image on the Recovery drive. Yes, I agree. Like I said, that’s how I did it a year ago. If it were not for the Gateway stuff in that Sys 8 image, I would be happy to delete it. If I had some use for the extra space I could get with deleting that, I would delete it. But neither applies, at least for now, so might as well leave the possibility of getting the Gateway stuff on hand — although I do very much doubt I would ever bother.

It seems to come down to having some extra space. But I don’t need it, and I can get it later if Ido want it.

Re my image size, I am starting at 152 GB on the C: partition alone, plus the other partitions. It is being compressed to 125 GB. BUT, since its doing a sector by sector backup, rather than a full disk backup, that is why I’m not getting more compression, Acronis warns about that. Frankly, I’m surprised I’m getting any compression. As long as those bad sectors are somewhere on the drive, I will be stuck with the sector by sector backup, Acronis will not do it any other way if any bad sectors.

That was a good idea about why to move the recovery file to part 5. I would not have to image part 6 then, just eave it, maybe keep it externally in its own backup. I gather a restore would not erase part 6, unless I have a part 6 on the image. BUT, then I realized it would not do anything to change the compression or method of backup, part 5 also is being seen as having bad sectors, and that forces Acronis to only a sector by sector backup, and the compression I can get with that. :( Also, doesn’t that Recovery file have to have a system recovery image with it, and that now is the Win 8?

2. Yes, that’s what Chkdsk said. And Acronis sees bad sectors. And none of us can read the report from CrystalDiskInfo, although I think that is checking only the C partition, but maybe there is a way to check the others.

I don’t think it is a matter of unchecking Backup Unallocated Space, I think that is the default. But if it needed to be unchecked, then I unchecked it, I can’t possibly fit the unallocated space on the external hard drive.

Interesting suggestion, to delete Part 5 and then recreate it, see if the bad sectors magically go away — magic does happen in tech. :) I did already run chkdsk on the partition, though, and it found nothing wrong -- and I think that includes that it found no bad sectors (I put the readout somewhere above). Having done that, it seems to make the result unlikely to make any differnce, and again throws doubt on Acronis. I'm a bit quesy about deleting the partiton and starting anew, never played with that before. And, if I delete it, the space goes somewhere -- to the C partition, which then would be the one to interfere with Acronis, and I would not have the option not to image that. Hmm, that could backfire. We can delete the file on the partition, but if we delete the partition, we might mess up C, and that would be permanent.

(1) "Yes, I was expecting that is strictly for Troubleshoot/Reset This PC. That might even be the “button” it’s referring to."

That's right. I recall seeing in a thread, someone did a reset & was shocked to see he'd returned all the way back to Win 7 in his case.

(2) "I do make periodic images"

That is a good practice. Occasionally, consider making one with Windows system image backup too. There was a time I always made one of each, but finally settled on Windows as my go-to. But I still do a DiscWizard after each new Windows feature update (new version) comes in.

(3) "It seems to come down to having some extra space. But I don’t need it, and I can get it later if Ido want it."

OK, I'll admit, it was quite a while before I deleted my own Dell Win 8.1 factory recovery partition & for that same reason. And I've never come close to using the space I gained by deleting it. Still, I have my images & do not regret finally deleting it. Mine was only 8 GB, & it never claimed to have a push button.

(4) "As long as those bad sectors are somewhere on the drive, I will be stuck with the sector by sector backup,"

Well, you're more knowledgeable than me about it. I only dimly recall I may have heard the things you say about it before. Maybe I was in that ancient thread between you & Slance310 long ago, I don't know. Too bad the docs say little/nothing about the issue. So, let us see whether replacing the partition is a cure.

(5) "That was a good idea about why to move the recovery file to part 5. I would not have to image part 6 then, just eave it"

Absolutely, still a good idea, especially if replacing partition 5 before moving files into it is a cure for the bad sectors problem. Otherwise, still partition 6 won't get into the image. And, anyway, it will be interesting to see whether Windows system image backup has the same problem with partition 5 as Acronis does. But to see that, partition 5 has to be pointed to by ReagentC instead of 6.

(6) "And none of us can read the report from CrystalDiskInfo, although I think that is checking only the C partition, but maybe there is a way to check the others."

I think Slance310 suggested putting a letter on them. But File Explorer still has trouble seeing their contents even with a letter. I don't know whether CrystalDiskInfo would have the same problem. Command Prompt has no problem.

DiskPart

Select  Disk  0

Select  Part  5

Assign  Letter=X

Select  Part  6

Assign  Letter=Y

Exit

=== See what CrystalDiskInfo says here                                     ===

=== If it's something really bad, you'd likely see red messages ===

DiskPart

Select  Disk  0

Select  Part  5

Remove  Letter=X

Select  Part  6

Remove  Letter=Y

Exit

(7) So here is Disk 0...

Remember Partition 1 is the invisible MSR partition. So, my circle is around Partition 5. We will delete Partition 5, & 826 MB of unallocated space will result. It will go nowhere on its own. Then we will recreate it as a Recovery partition with a Win 2004 Recovery folder inside. Finally, we will point ReagentC to it. Partition 6 will remain untouched, but it will no longer be the official Recovery partition, & Windows will let it alone. Hopefully, Acronis will like Partition 5 after that. We'll also want to check whether Windows system image backup & restore likes it.

But I have to look up a few things & maybe test the process on my computer first, if it looks tricky. That'll be in the wee hours or maybe even tomorrow.

4. BTW, that ancient thread with Slance. That was the first time I ever used Acronis, got it then. I was pretty much brand new on Widows, only maybe six months. And decided I wanted to go up to Win 10 finally, while it was still free. So, of course, needed a backup first. Limited space on drive. Still, don’t recall details, it was something like there was 110 GB of space left on drive, maximum compression in Acronis said the backup file would be 75 GB, after along time imaged each time, it kept coming in at the end quitting, saying bot enough space for the backup. After driving us crazy fora month, I finally got it done, and realized the issue was it was saying the file was 75 GB but it was 105 GB! I had to keep deleting things, maybe saving on a flash drove to put back on, until it fit. So, Acronis has problems.(Although now, with what we have been talking about, I wonder if it kept switching to sector by sector backup and I didn’t know about that, and that is what the file was bigger.)

 5) Moving the Recovery file to Part 5 doesn’t really seem to matter, as far as I can tell. I would still be keeping part 6 for the gateway stuff. The recovery files still is fine on 6 and will work from there. And Acronis insists pat 5 has bad sectors anyway, so it will do a sector by sector backup anyway. So why even bother moving it? And again, the old advice, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. The saying is because if you try to fix it, inevitable you will suffer lots of headaches for your effort.

6. Yes, I suggested putting a letter on them, in order to run chkdsk on each, and I did it on part 5. And that is the code you gave me and I used for the one partition. But I don’t know how to do it with CrystalDiskInfo, or if it can. Crystal DiskInfo just runs, I didn’t get any choice of what to run it on. I can look more into it, maybe I can select somehow. But nonetheless. none of us can read the results anyway, so we won’t know anything more even if we run it.

Oh, so then we wont actually be deleting part 5, we will be erasing it, or otherwise just deleting the files on it? Yes, that would hold it. But if we actually delete the partition, the space has to be in something, it will be in C. But again, see my comment in 5). Oh, well, you were hoping for magic to have no bad sectors.But again, we can only erase it, not delete it. Maybe that’s where the headache comes in. :)

(1) "But I don’t know how to do it with CrystalDiskInfo"

Put the letters on, run it, & see what happens. Post the result.

(2) No -- I know for sure -- when we delete Partition 5, it becomes unallocated space & stays put. Unallocated space is space that is not inside any partition. I'm getting close to what will do it...

=== Don't do it yet. I want to test it first.  ===

DiskPart                                    <<< Enter DiskPart

Select  Disk  0

List  Part

Select  Part  5                           <<< Be sure you get that number right

Delete  Partition                       <<< Delete partition 5

Create  Partition  Primary         <<< Creates a new partition 5

List  Part

Format  Quick  FS=NTFS  Label="Recovery Tools"           <<< Format & label it

Assign  Letter=R                                                               <<< Give it letter R

Set  ID="de94bba4-06d1-4d40-a16a-bfd50179d6ac"     <<< Make it a Recovery partition

GPT  Attributes=0x8000000000000001                            <<< Give it those attributes

Select  Part  6                          <<< Select that Push Button Partition

Assign  Letter=X                      <<< Give it letter X

List  Vol                                    <<< Show the new letters

List  Part                                   <<< Show partition 5 is a Recovery partition

Exit                                           <<< Exit DiskPart

XCOPY  X:\Recovery  R:\Recovery  /E  /I  /H  /K  /X     <<< Copy Recovery from partition 6 to 5

DIR  R:\  /a  /s                                                              <<< Show what's on partition 5

DiskPart

Select  Disk  0

Select  Part  5

Remove  Letter=R

Select  Part  6

Remove  Letter=X

Exit

Use Ctrl-A & Ctrl-C to copy, then post it to us.

=== Don't do it yet. I want to test it first.  ===

=== After that, we'll point ReagentC to it  ===