Issues Updating from 1703 to 1709

Hi PCR again,

For clarity,

             Disc 0 is SSD 125GB with Win 10 Pro OS

             Disc 1 is HDD 1TB with everything other than main OS mounted in Optical Drive slot.  

Sorry if replies piecemeal but with this problem and dual responses plus being below par and being out of my depth has problems. 

             I  have done a lot of things with Windows but the latest problems are getting beyond any long term Users normal understanding of the OS.  Maybe the workings of Win 10 are just becoming so convoluted in the efforts to get Windows back under control that the problem for us Users with the resultant problems are becoming more than reasonably complicated.  For many years I just ran a Repair Install (my term) with XP for my OS and all was OK again.   Never a failed Update ( from a Service pack 1 or 2, 3 or whatever) and regardless of what I did to XP in my various experiments, which were many, I could easily fix a broken XP, I was always able to quickly mend the problem and regain a fully functional Win XP within minutes.  

            As an OS becomes more able then one expects a growth in size but why exponential, with learning & innovation there should be a sufficient reduction to enable a near equivalent size.   Why the need to carry drivers for all and sundry.  What is the point of a Windows installation wanting an internet connection for Updates and apparently ignoring all the Hardware drives etc updates needed.  I could be wrong in my understanding of the way things appear to be to me. Why does Windows want me to install the driver for hardware from my PC maker (like Dell) and then provide Updates for them which are generic and possibly wrong. as happened in the past for my AMD Graphics Card.

Hi PCR,

   Further to some of the points I missed.  I have not FIDDLED with the boot menu but I have used EasyBCD to manage changes in the boot menu over the years.  Windows will only allow the most recent OS to rewrite the Boot.  

   It is impossible to itemise every method that I used to try to install 1709 and while I am sure there are inconsistencies in my numerous posts they are result of the multiple efforts I have made to install 1709 which I have tried to communicate with the limitations of using words to provide a description of every variation I tried.  If you consider the hours I spent over 3 months in my efforts to install 1709 then you may understand the lack of complete picture provided by my few hundreds of words.

=== I'm still puzzled with that. Did you actually have a Windows.old folder, or just a $Windows.~BT &/or a $Windows.~WS...?...     Yes, I removed the lot as junk once I knew I had a reliable 1709 installation.  Maybe you have no idea of the amount of junk that Windows Update can leave behind.  Why would I keep Windows Old when there was no Old Windows to get files from.    If you have wasted as many hours as I have chasing every possibility I can guarantee you will not be interested in going through 48GB remnants of crap, I finally had a usable 1709 Win 10 so should I really care about the garbage remaining?  Then I had the task of reinstalling one hell of a lot of Software after 3 months of every minute of my spare time in solving the Update problem.  Just like the time for my reply to your post which I assume you made in an effort to help me out of this Update failure. 

       I appreciate the effort but please do not nit pick the inconsistencies of my past posts as you see them when they related to a particular post and may therefore not be consistent with the total situation. When Windows allows a complete clip of a timeframe for any problem then maybe we will have a complete assessment available for analysis of any problem encountered in an Update.  At the moment the reporting of Update failures leave one hell of a lot to be desired.  The latest Update method may be applauded by many but is a nightmare to many others with problems caused by this "innovation" who are unable to localise the source of any problem/failure encountered.

Hi PCR

        My setup is based on what were good practices advocated by many in the early days of XP.  I will not repeat my reason for using this type of setup.   Windows 10 allows what I do by providing the Options to do so and 16 years of shared Virt Memory (not currently) have had zero problems.  I no longer share the Software Partition as storage capacity has removed the need and I could see possible problems if continued with Win7.  Bar the Win 8 to 8.1 Update I have had no problems with Updates until the change to amalgamated Updates. 

       I had removed the HDD at one point in the 1709 Update problem to allow me to try using a DVD with an image of 1709 to get the Update installed but that failed and I then did a clean install of 1709 last month onto the SSD.   I tried every permutation possible to get 1709 installed without starting from scratch and I really cannot remember the detail of every change I made in the abortive attempt. At one point I did have the SSD in the Opt slot but changed that for the Clean install of 1709 I think.  During my attempts at 1709 I hid partitions to remove any possible confusion during install.   Before Virtualisation I had XP on multi boot and in later life some Updates had problems identifying which was the C:\ drive the Update belonged since all are C:\ when in use, the partition position did not always seem the relevant reference.

          Current best practices suggest it is inadvisable to have the Virt Mem on an SSD as it can severely shorten the drives life with frequent churning of content and at the moment SSD are to B expensive to waste.

          Regarding the Old Windows file, I think that was exactly my own question in relation to that.  I did not use a Wipe Data action for the previous files contained but I did change the partition size and format it.  I also selected "Retain Nothing" at install so your guess is as good as mine.  As I often repeat "Win 10 is an overgrown mammoth, too big for its own good and beyond the control of Microsoft at its current size, although it has shrunk a little of late but not to where I can back it up to one DVD as I could with XP.   I still fail to understand why the default for Windows is to mix everything up on one partition.  I should be one for the OS and another for all files belonging to a user be it .pst or anything else.  No more lost Address Books or whatever should the OS become a unusable or un-Updatable.  Do you put your bank details and passwords in with the washing, your clean clothes, your record collection, your food and anything else not for disposal, NO.

            You appear to be looking negatively for a get out answer to the problem.  Anything I do now may not be mainstream average User but do major businesses allow this mix for all User workstations and Data and storage?

Hi Robert,

            Current version is 16.299.248 and the Update I am attempting to install will, I believe, take me to ---.309 after KB4088776.   On the issue of troubleshooting these updates, I made such a comment on Feedback when having trouble installing 1709, can't do piecemeal to narrow the problem to 1 area.  Seems a number of other people are having real problems with Delta Updates trashing their PC.

            Do not understand reference to Power Shell Pipeline fro Updates.  As I have Pro and have had problem with Updates awaiting Restart playing silly buggers with my PC I have "Download and notify for Install" selected. It use to be Notify to download + Notify for Install but the option has gone.

            Power Shell ? gives KB4053577 & KB4088785 on the 13th; KB4087256, on the 15th and KB4074588 & KB4074595 on the 16th. Is that what you wanted.

            Sorry but you lost me after Bold text except Winver.  The hyperlink at the end leads to a repeat page  from previously with a reference to Enterprise for my problem.

Will shortly run clean Boot and see what happens.

...snip...

Just a refresher about my setup. Win10 Pro is on a 250GB SSD.  All data is on a HDD mounted in the Optical slot of my Laptop. The HDD holds all my Data Files, my Downloads and Temp files and the nominated location for Windows Virtual Memory,  all of which are on separate partitions plus a  Win 10 Pro 1703 Partition.  I have relocated the usual File Explorer links to the appropriate HDD file location (F:\ My Docs, Videos, etc and T:\ Temp plus S:\ Virtual Memory) which allows me to Dual Boot when I need to do so such as during the 1703 to 1709 problem I had.  I have used this type of setup since the start of Win XP with PCs and Laptops without problems for 16 plus years.

...snip...

(1) I've read one should let Windows keep its various Temp folders where it will. I would undo what you did with that. Especially, you don'twant separate installations using the same ones. But even just one installation should let them be.

(2) I guess I filled in the blanks incorrectly on what you wrote previously. Somehow I thought both installations ended up on the HDD. I thought you removed the SSD to put the DVD into its a slot. Then, you booted to the DVD through UEFI/BIOS, opened unallocated space on the HDD, & installed v.1709 to it. That would have established a true dual-boot situation.

(a) If the SSD has v.1703 & was removed while v.1709 was installed to the HDD, you might be able to boot to each by fiddling with UEFI/BIOS before each boot - but you aren't getting the Windows boot selection screen - are you? How many items show up at in MSConfig (ask Cortana) at the Boot tab...?...

(b) I want to know whether the HDD is Disk 0 or Disk 1. I've seen some complain that Windows Update won't work for disks that aren't Disk 0, (though it shouldn't be). Open an administrator PowerShell or Command Prompt, and enter each of the following. Then, use the Snipping Tool (ask Cortana) & the Insert Image icon above your post to post it.

DiskPart

List Disk

Sel Disk 0

List Part

Sel Disk 1

List Part

List Vol

Exit

On page 6 (Feb 5), you said...

" I have opened a new partition on the HDD and installed 1709 onto that with nil problems using the latest 1709 .iso on DVD from startup for that purpose.  For some reason my SSD, located in what was the optical drive bay, continued to be recognised as USB upon boot so I was unable to use a usb memory card for that purpose ( yes, I had to remove the SSD to allow me to remount the DVD player and reboot twice to get the fact recognised).   I would have preferred to have loaded the 1709 version to the SSD but when I put the SSD into the laptop HDD slot I had startup problem as the drive was not recognized."

On page 7 (Feb 6), you said...

"No problem with the SSD as it was not mounted, sorry you have lost track but I was trying to install 1709 on the HDD with the DVD player in the slot I now use for the HDD.  The addition of the SSD has only been since, NOT DURING and fits in the DVD slot of my LAPTOP

MY LAPTOP NOW HAS 1709 LOADED AS CLEAN INSTALL, NO USB DEVICES AND DRIVERS RELATING AND NO SSD!"

=== I think you meant "the slot I now use for the SSD".

On page 7 (Feb 13), you wrote...

"I do not see the link.  New partition by opening space from existing partitions, clean install from DVD.   Maybe I am just thick but nil partition content plus DVD content cannot generate 48GB of old file, unless the installation dug up old deleted files from a prior use of that section of the HDD.  WHY WOULD WINDOWS DO THAT WHEN "KEEP NOTHING" WAS SELECTED for a partition containing nothing.  Yes I have got rid of the lot and I did not bother to see the content, it just was very odd."

=== I'm still puzzled with that. Did you actually have a Windows.old folder, or just a $Windows.~BT &/or a $Windows.~WS...?...

https://www.howtogeek.com/268667/what-is-the-windows.bt-folder-and-can-you-delete-it/

What Is the $Windows.~BT folder & Can You Delete It?