++ the future of Microsoft Lumia mobile phones ++

Microsoft is a perfect match with windows phone - well yes in the same way that Apple is a perfect match with IOS but that doesn't really add much

Pulling out of manufacturing phones was a mistake - but thats the decision they made so we have to live with it

Windows phone needs OEM - yes, but it has none and no-one is lining up to start because MS have cancelled Mobile

*IF* they took the monumental decision to reverse the discussions of the past few years and *IF* they put another shed load of money behind it then they *might* get some realistic share of the market and that *might* get others to risk their own money but they aren't competitive in Mobile because they are no longer in Mobile.

The platform has no future *unless* Microsoft choose to give it a future 

a development that takes 5 years to mature is not spectacular, with money and time you can make any software work but the market didn't wait and now its looking fairly dated, there are some nice touches and I still like it but can we see one single aspect of it that isn't available and/or better developed elsewhere?

Turning Lumia into a bold success would be more than a success story it would be like resurrecting the dodo, that's not because I don't want them to try it's just where we are.

Your enthusiasm is great but you have to face reality - If the Lumia brand continues at all it will be ONLY a brand name - in the same way BMW Mini shares only a name with the original Leyland Mini. Imagine that MS decide today that it was all a big mistake, a new phone in the Lumia line has to be designed and manufactured which will take at least a year and by that time there will have been new Pixel, Samsung and iPhone - what will MS do to make their new phone appeal to the people who have just invested in those new phones and if they can think of it now what didn't they think of it before?

8 on the 640 XL was the best they did. The 950 line on 8 would be a much better phone, with apps that actually work. 

They really don't have decent tech anymore. The Surface line never recorded a penny of profit before Microsoft decided not to release that info anymore. Still can't imagine its in the black. Windows is a big bloated mess. Sorry, but no OS should be using up over 15gb of storage. And Mobile 10 was even worse, at least in comparison with the tiny amount of storage available on those "flagship" Windows phones. 

About the only thing Microsoft has going for it is Xbox and that is shaky. 

I really can't think of any tech that Microsoft has thats is even remotely interesting. AR? for $2000 and up? And still unstable? nope. The Hub? Give me a nice big TV and a remote mouse and I'll beat it. What else is there?

• when you have Lumia in hand, only you forget who you are, but when you do not have any Lumia in your hand, the whole world forgets who you are. Here is a slightly modified version of a well-known Bill Gates quote & I hope Microsoft will recognize the importance of Windows Mobile's potential  // the quote can be applicable in some way also for the fans, in the sense that Microsoft Lumia helps us on a daily basis & without Windows Phone, the future of Windows will suffer. I have once compared Windows 10 mobile with Messi 10 (that is because even when he plays really poorly, he still draws the attention of 2-3 opposing players, so the rest of the team has some clear air to breathe).

I was thinking more about the enterprise space with Azure .net AD Office SQL server etc. I agree there's nothing innovative but, in general, they can make scalable stuff work - for a price. Their concept for UWP was probably good at the design stage but delivery has been so poor the market has once again moved ahead of them, the same happened with WHS. 

Surface does have some nice features which were innovative at the time but, again, they tried to copy the Apple model instead of striking out with something better - realistically priced and capable of third party repair/upgrade would be an excellent starting point but I think they've proved that hardware is beyond them many times. Hololens as a POC looks great but they've missed. the boat on consumer VR.

The bloat is, as you say, inexcusable (I've not noticed any issue with w10m on the 950 but as we've discussed before I use very few additional apps) but given that they haven't been able to take Apple's approach and dump users who don't upgrade I can see where some of it comes from, maintaining a driver model that supports kit from 2000 can't be easy and, presumably, they take the easy way out and just build everything into the baseline because of the backlash they get when they try to deprecate something no matter how old. I know a major manufacturer of ATM who is still insisting that MS should continue to support XP because their bank customers won't pay for an upgrade. That's not to excuse it though, they did well to shoe horn VMS style architecture into NT but then broke it and have been playing catch up with themselves ever since. They do seem to be accepting its unsustainable so, theoretically, they should be able to reduce the footprint going forward but I won't hold my breath either.

Linux is the model I assume you prefer and I can see the attraction but whilst I love Open Source as a concept I'm still skeptical about entrusting mission critical applications to a support infrastructure that relies, partially, on volunteers, if I discover a defect that's affecting line of business I have to have a vendor who is willing to stand behind a product not wait until some student in the Ukraine finishes his thesis and  get's around to it. I know the situation is better than that but if support stopped because my Ukrainian friend got a job with Google who explains that to my board? At least with MS you can argue there's someone worth suing at breach of contract.

I'm still missing the parallel with Messi, in what way has W10M proved any sort of distraction for other players in the space and how did the rest of MS take advantage of it?