Windows Update - How will it change your system?

Anonymous
2016-10-14T16:11:13+00:00

You need to make a decision about where you want to be with your system.

My advice is to change the Windows Update (WU) setting to never.

It really depends on where you want to be with your Windows 7 system.

Woody Leonhard has described the situation something like this.  Note, I am using my own words here and describing it from my own perspective:

http://www.infoworld.com/article/3128983/microsoft-windows/how-to-prepare-for-the-windows-781-patchocalypse.html

Group A:  Roll over and just let MS install what ever they wish on your computer and just don't worry about privacy and the spyware they will install.  With this option you leave WU as Delayed start, and set the WU setting at Recommended.  This is the easy way and requires no effort or concentration.  You just let happen what will.  This is essentially what you have with a Windows 10 system.

Group B:  Refuse to accept any updates except Security ones.  In that case you follow my initial recommendation and leave WU set at Never.  You get the Security only updates from the "catalog".   There is risk here in B.  You are trusting that MS will not put anything in that group that does things you do not want done. A sort of level of trust in MS that I am not sure they deserve.   Keep in mind that they have done the same thing with this set of updates they did in the main one.  It is all one agglomeration of whatever number of security updates they decide to put in it. 

Group C (AKA W): Shut down WU permanently and never again accept a Windows Update.  This group feels that the risk of MS changing their machine in unacceptable ways or even bricking it is greater than the risk of a hacker breaking in because some security patch was not installed.   I suspect that most people who even think about this topic will opt for this.  However since most people think of their computer like a potato peeler, they will not even think about this and things will just happen without them even knowing.  They will be Group A and won't even know it.

I am in Group W and would like to be in Group B.   It depends on whether I can find a satisfactory way for my 150 or so client machines to be updated.  They are average Joes and Janes.

Note that this may not apply to NON-Windows updates such as Office.  I am not sure how you can be in group B or W and do this, but I am working on it.

UPDATE November 19, 2016:

It now appears that B is an impractical strategy for 99% of users.  And, here is the reason why:  When an error is made in a security-only update, if the error turns out not to have a security affect, it may be corrected in a non-security update.  In that case if you were following B strategy, you would be left with an un-corrected defective update installed on your computer.  If you were extremely diligent and knew about it, you may be able to get the correction in specific cases.  This would entail an extreme amount of diligence that few would be willing or able to provide.

The new rollup style of updates that Microsoft is now providing to what we would call Group A, which include all kinds of updates (security and non-security), are cumulative.  That means if you miss a month or even more, it will not matter because by installing the latest month's rollup, you would be up to date.

NOTE well, that Security-only updates are NOT cumulative.  Which means if you miss a month, you may never get the missed updates.

So one strategy that you may wish to consider is following Group C, but still updating .net and Microsoft Office through Windows Update, but installing no Windows updates at all.  It would be advisable in this case that you stop using Internet Explorer because you would not be getting those updates, but instead use an alternative browser.

Then, after following this strategy for some time, if things take a turn for the worse, and you decide you made the wrong choice (Group C with .net an Office updates), you can easily shift to A by simply using the latest offered Rollup offered in Windows Update.

So, as things have evolved, it looks like the vast majority have really only two choices:  A as described above or C (modified as described above).  The good news is that if you follow the modified C strategy, you have a way back to the Microsoft way, that is easy to implement.

Windows for home | Previous Windows versions | Windows update

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  1. Anonymous
    2017-05-31T08:14:31+00:00

    I'm a Joe.

    I've never been good in the trust department with MS, however always used their updates automatically.  Until May/June last year when MS tried to force me to upgrade to Windows 10.  What upset me most was when I tried to "hide" the pesky KBs responsible, that Windows 10 kept reloading them (and redesigning them into new ones to hide them) to the point of almost accidentally upgrading to Windows 10.  It was at that point when I turned off automatic updates, and went for the "choose" option.  That was last year in October.  I tried my best with Googling each update - focusing on the Security ones only, as well as the ones that were for MS products I was using.  Was quite an eye opener how many of the updates were totally irrelevant to my system.

    Then in December I went through a major upheaval in my life with having to move to a different continent. When I did this I had my Dell desktop reformatted and upgraded.  I re-installed Windows 7 Professional 64 bit from scratch.  Took a few months to get settled with Internet at my new home, and am now using my desktop for the first time.  For security I uploaded my Kaspersky from scratch from the Kaspersky site, and ditto Malwarebytes Premium from Malwarebytes site.  Now what to do about the Windows 7 updates?  Like I remember when I installed Windows 7 in 2014 how almost impossible it was to download the updates - it took me almost two days to do then.  It was a HUGE undertaking.  This time round it has the issues of last year October as well with Microsoft going for bulk updates.  So this is how I Googled my way to this discussion and hope there is a link available for up to date guidelines of what to do.  

    This is where I'm at present with my Windows 7 Professional 64-bit Update System:

    [img]http://i.imgur.com/qajGLkp.png[/img]

    http://i.imgur.com/qajGLkp.png

    What does the Install Update Software instruction mean?  Is that the Service Pack 1?  Do I just click on install - what will MS be installing on my system?

    Currently my Update Settings are:

    Never check for updates

    The box about "give me recommended updates" is also unticked.

    The participation in security is also turned off.

    If you say "C" (W) is permanently turned off, does this mean that I operate my Windows 7 Professional without any updates ever, or do I need to download Service Pack 1 and some key packages?  

    Of do I need to follow the process below?  

    https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows\_7-update/windows-7-update-solution/f39a65fa-9d10-42e7-9bc0-7f5096b36d0c?page=56

    Is the above still up to date, or is there an easier way for me to start the update process?

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  2. Anonymous
    2017-05-31T14:55:45+00:00

    Set WU at NEVER.  Leave it that way.  This does not mean you never update.  It simply means never do it automatically and that you accept the responsibility, and take control of the process.

    Periodically, take a look at www.askwoody.com  Woody Leonhard is the expert of all experts on WU.  He consults with a large band of experts.  On his page you will see his MS-Defcon rating.  If it is 2 or below, do NOT do any updates.

    If you are an average Joe, as I think you are implying, you want to use the A plan.  That means you accept any and all updates that MS wants you to have installed.  If that be the case, when the time is right, start and run WU.  You may find that your security software gets in the way.  If it does, you may have to temporarily remove it.

    If however you want to follow the B route, you still can do that. One of Woody's group has put a page up that really makes it simple: https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/2000002-ongoing-list-of-group-b-monthly-updates-for-win7-and-8-1/

    When you re-installed your system, you should have follow through with WU all the way.  That includes SP1.  SP1 is very necessary.  If you have not done that, it is time to do so.  I am including the process I use to do a new install at the end of this response.  Timing is not right, but you can follow most of it.

    1. I do this all the time.  I have done hundreds.  This is likely to take an elapsed time of around 12 hours.
    2. First go to your computer’s OEM support site and find and download the drivers for your computer and store them on a USB stick.
    3. From this point onward, I am providing you with the process to install Windows 7.
    4. You may be able to take your data off first.  Remove the failing hard drive and put it into a USB external drive housing.  Connect to a working PC, copy the data off.  You may need a friend to do this part for you, but the rest is not really very technical or difficult for most people.
    5. Install the new hard drive.
    6. Do not do any formatting or partitioning.
    7. If you made a set of disks for recovery or an image copy at the time your computer was new.  This is the time you need them.
    8. Start your computer on the first of the disks as instructed and in an hour or so, your computer will look exactly as it did then.
    9. If you do not have that set of disks. You will need a legal reusable Microsoft Product Key.  You will need a Windows 7 install disk. The win7 disk must match the edition of your product key, and its bitness (32 or 64).  If you do not have the original Windows 7 install disk, borrow one from a friend.  Hopefully, the disk you use will be labeled SP1 (Service Pack 1), because that will save you an additional 4 hours or so.
    10. Place the Windows 7 install disk in the disk reader and start your computer.
    11. Once the install process is started, choose CUSTOM.  Ignore the check box about drivers, unless you can not proceed further.
    12. When you get to the place where it asks you where to put the installation, click Advanced and delete all partitions.
    13. When the installer asks about Windows update, choose Ask me later
    14. Do NOT install any program
    15. Hopefully, you started with a Win7 install disk that was SP1 (Service Pack 1). If not, run Windows Update until you get to the point that SP1 has installed itself as part of this procedure.  It entails multiple Windows Update passes and restarts which you keep updating until you get there.
    16. Once Windows 7 SP1 is installed, install the following:
    17. KB3020369 Win-7 32 https://download.microsoft.com/download/C/0/8/C0823F43-BFE9-4147-9B0A-35769CBBE6B0/Windows6.1-KB3020369-x86.msu
    18. Win-7 64 bit https://download.microsoft.com/download/5/D/0/5D0821EB-A92D-4CA2-9020-EC41D56B074F/Windows6.1-KB3020369-x64.msu
    19. KB3172605 Win-7 32 bit, https://download.microsoft.com/download/C/D/5/CD5DE7B2-E857-4BD4-AA9C-6B30C3E1735A/Windows6.1-KB3172605-x86.msu
    20. Win-7 64 bit, https://download.microsoft.com/download/5/6/0/560504D4-F91A-4DEB-867F-C713F7821374/Windows6.1-KB3172605-x64.msu
    21. Open Windows Update, change Windows Update setting to Never check for updates
    22. Do not install anything else at this point – NOTHING
    23. Start the update process.  It is likely to include about 200. It will take some time.
    24. Once you have a list of updates, you need to prevent certain specific updates from being installed to prevent Windows 10 from taking over.
    25. Click once on each Update that is NOT labeled SECURITY and check the date of issue on the right.  If that date is after January 1, 2015, Right-click on it and hide.
    26. Click install updates and wait for it to finish.  Restart when asked to do so.
    27. After re-start is complete and you see a desktop, start Task manager – Right-click on task bar. Look at the % at the bottom.  Do NOT attempt to use the computer for any purpose until you see that % fall to and stay at 10% or less.  Windows Update is still working and has a lot of work to do.
    28. Keep running Windows Update again and again till it offers no new ones.
    29. Start Internet Explorer, click the gear (upper right) in IE11 and select Compatibility settings and enter Microsoft.com in the list
    30. Start Windows Update and click the link to include updates for other Microsoft software.
    31. Run Windows Update again and again until you are satisfied you have all the updates you want.
    32. After the install is complete, check Device Manager. Type device in the text box above the start globe when you click it and choose Device manager from the list to find out if Win7 was able to supply the drivers you need.  You should get drivers only from the maker of your computer or Intel.  Its best to get all the drivers at this point.  Win7 install may have installed all of them or nearly. Do NOT use any of those driver download sites.  They are all bogus, have bad drivers, and install malware.
    33. Install your Microsoft Office software and then run Windows Update again and again till no more are proposed.
    34. Defragment your drive.  Type defragment in the text box above the start globe when you click it once.  Choose the Defragmentation link.  Wait till it completes all passes..
    35. Next, you will need to take steps to prevent Windows 10 from taking over.  First step is to change the Windows Update setting to NEVER. Second step is to download and install GWX Control Panel.

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  3. Anonymous
    2017-06-01T08:23:56+00:00

    Many thanks for the prompt response @Canadian Tech.  I definitely want to opt for Group B - which of course will will mean lots of hard work and extra vigilance.  

    I'm still hesitating - and before I start, am going to ask probably a very dumb question.  What is the absolute worst scenario for not updating Windows 7?  I'm using it right now.  It works beautiful.  It's fast.  I haven't experienced a single functionality problem yet.  My needs are uncomplicated and basic.  For hardware I have a simple Samsung printer.  My old Altec speakers are working perfect.  Everything works well from the get go.  

    I know updates are very important for security and that Kaspersky Anti-Virus and MalWareBytes are probably not sufficient.  Can one get away with not loading any updates?  

    A second question.  When I click on "Install Now" in the image below, what is going to happen?  Will it install Windows 7 Service Pack 1 by default?  

    http://i.imgur.com/qajGLkp.png

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  4. Anonymous
    2017-06-01T12:52:18+00:00

    I do not use links like that, so I cannot see what you are referring to.

    Group B has risks.  The major risk is the possibility and indeed probability that MS will one day issue a fix to a security update in its non-security stream.  Thereby leaving a defective update installed. 

    I have been following the B stream as outlined in that askwoody website I referred to earlier.  So far, everything appears to be good.  I am doubtful that B will continue to be practical.  At some point in time, I will have to stop Windows Updating and take my chances.  I am not all that fearful of that.

    The odds of MS turning my great Win7 machine into something I do not want using Windows Update are 100%.  The odds of a hacker ruining my system in some permanent way are quite small.

    One worst case scenario is I can always at some point join the MS Windows Update process that they want me to use.  Because those updates are cumulative, just one update cycle would bring my system inline with their design.

    However, consider this:

    • Win7 is very stable.  My 150 client PC group has seen no problem at all in at least a year. I read accounts of Win7 stability all the time.
    • MS is a hollowed out shell.  The really good talent that created Windows is long gone.  What is left is a lot of incompetency that continues to shovel defective Windows Updates out the door, thereby threatening the stability we crave.  WU used to be a trusted source for driver updates. Today, I strongly recommend you do not even consider a driver update from WU.
    • I am not certain that there is something of a frantic nature of those who push these updates as critical.  At least part of that drive is questionable in my mind
    • The trend to hacking has moved from kids being disruptive to criminal gangs targeting specific organizations.  The average Joe like you and I are unlikely targets
    • I protect myself with frequent backups and a good image of my base system.  I can re-build my system in 6 hours with little lost.
    • I use ANTIVIRUS only security products.  I refuse to use or allow my clients to use SECURITY products like Kaspersky.  I have such a product installed on my 150 client computers and it has been installed for the last 3 years.  Not a single instance of infection.
    • Win7 has been having security fixes applied for a lot of years.  It is tempting to think a high percentage of security issues have been fixed by now.
    • The current offering from Microsoft is not Windows.  At least not anything like any Windows I want or need.  Consequently Win7 is a sunset product.  I intend to continue to use Win7 until I cannot any longer for whatever reason.  When that happens, I will likely replace it with a Smart Phone.

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  5. Anonymous
    2017-06-01T13:40:24+00:00

    A second question.  When I click on "Install Now" in the image below, what is going to happen?  Will it install Windows 7 Service Pack 1 by default?  

    It will auto-update the Windows Update Client. You don't want default version 7.6.7600.320. Ignore the prompt, close the Window, install KB3138612 and reboot.

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3138612

    Regards, VZ

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