Short form: I want to use a 16GB USB flash drive memory stick as RAM, but seem to be unable to use more than 4GB, due to the system requirements, limiting what I can enter for values (size). WHY?? More detail: The computer is a desktop machine, having a 3.0GHz dual-core processor, and 4GB RAM installed. I believe the hard drive is a 1T. I have a 16GB USB flash drive memory stick, which I want to use to boost the RAM, for games, and such. There are 3 spare USB ports on the back of the tower. The flash drive is new, with NO files saved on it. When I go into the Settings; Computer; Virtual Memory, the computer is not allowing me to enter a value greater than 4096 in the field for "Initial Size" or "Maximum Size", for the Page File of the USB drive. The Value for C: that I see is: "2096-4092". Main Question: Is there some reason why I cannot allocate more of the memory stick for RAM? (Does the flash drive need to be formatted?) Does the values for C: need to be changed? I presently have "4090" entered for values "Initial Size" and "Maximum Size" in the custom size, for the Page File of the USB Drive. Screenshot provided of Virtual Memory Settings screen: (you can see the L: drive settings (selected), and the C: settings, also) http://prntscr.com/336ocy Question 2: Also, is the "4G" of RAM which I have added to the machine, being added to the 4GB which is already installed in the tower? Question 3: Does the OS wait until the system RAM is full before using the External RAM? Thanks! edit to add: What I learned from Microsoft article "How To Set Performance Options in Windows XP": http://support.microsoft.com/kb/308417/en-us To manually change the size of virtual memory, follow these steps: ... Note After you change the size of the paging file, you may be prompted to restart Windows. If you are prompted to restart, the changes will not take effect until Windows is restarted. ... To have Windows select the best paging file size, click System managed size. The recommended minimum size is the same as 1.5 times the RAM on your computer, and 3 times that figure for the maximum size. For example, if you have 256 MB of RAM, the minimum size is 384 MB, and the maximum size is 1152 MB. For best performance, do not set the initial size to less than the minimum recommended size under Total paging file size for all drives. The recommended size is the same as 1.5 times the RAM on your computer. It is good practice to leave the paging file at its recommended size as performance can decrease if a paging file is too large. However, you may increase its size if you frequently use programs that use lots of memory , such as graphics programs or games. What I am unclear of here, is that, as you can see in the screenshot, the Recommended Size under Total paging file size for all drives is 3019M. And, the values set for the Paging File in C are 2046-4092 . The tower has been rebuilt, and has 4GB RAM . I do not know if these numbers reflect an original build of 2GB, whereas 3GB (3019M) would be 1.5 times the installed RAM, perhaps. Under Virtual Memory, I see the following (shown in screenshot): Drive C Space available: 725194MB *Custom Size Initial Size: 2046 Maximum Size: 4092 Total paging file size for all Drives Minimum allowed: 2MB Recommended: 3019MB Currently Allocated: 2046MB Given that the system has 4GB RAM installed, shouldn't the minimum be 1.5 times that value, or ~6000MB ? (not 3019MB), and the maximum be 3 times ? (not 4092) "The recommended minimum size is the same as 1.5 times the RAM on your computer, and 3 times that figure for the maximum size." Can I change the values on the Virtual memory for C drive to 2046-12000MB ? That is what I am reading from the article. But, it also says to not have a paging file on the same drive as the programs. "Try to avoid having a paging file on the same drive as the system files, usually drive C." Also, why am I unable to enter values greater than 4096 for the USB drive in Initial or Maximum? I also have a question as to whether I should select "Programs" or "System Cache" in memory usage, due to the cache requirements of games, running very few programs. edit 2: I learned that the usb drive needs to be formatted in NTFS, so I did that, which isn't easy, as that isn't a selection in the choices in the Format menu, without going into Device Mgr. A friend was telling me about formatting a usb drive ex-fat for a newer application, and got me thinking. I had selected FAT32 for this one, and had noticed no change in the page file graph usage after adding the drive, like it wasn't getting any data placed on it. So, as custom settings for this USB drive, I have the Initial value at 4091 and the Maximum at 4096, with "System Cache" selected as opposed to "Programs" in Memory usage, in Performance settings. Any answers or tips would be appreciated. Am I on the right track?

Don't take the Jekyll & Hyde comment personally, it wasn't directed at you but rather made to illustrate how home users sometimes do all kinds of things to their computers without really knowing or fully understanding the consequences of these actions, generally speaking machines in corporate/enterprise environments don't take the kind of abuse that home machines do. To learn you have to experiment and you have to be willing to push the boundary, I've done (and still do) plenty of "experimenting" and at times some of it doesn't exactly turn out as expected... I strongly encourage experimentation to those who want to learn, unexpected results are part of the learning experience. There is a lot to address in your post, the Windows memory management is a rather complex subject so I'll just briefly address a few things and feel free to ask more questions if you need further clarifications or more in depth explanations. Firstly, the page file size and the 1.5 to 3 times RAM recommendation: This recommendation dates from the NT4 era and it made a lot of sense then when machines had very little RAM, on today's machines the recommendation is not always appropriate. If the XP machine has less than 1 gig of RAM then you could follow the recommendation, if the machine has more than 1 gig then the recommendations are not necessarily appropriate, enabling PAE just for the sake of having a page file larger than 4GB may not be a very good idea. In most cases rather than creating and excessively large page file it is best to have a the system dynamically manage the page file. The argument against the system managed page file is that the page file may become fragmented and this may affect performance, if this is a concern then set a static page file. The Task Manager and the PF usage information: The Task Managers PF usage information is a bit misleading, this doesn't really report the page file size but rather the current commit charge or the page file that would be needed if all the running processes would ask for all their allocated memory all at once, in reality this doesn't happen very often. If the commit charge is lower than the installed RAM then the page file is not really used other than for mapping purpose and the size of the file will for all intents and purposes be negligible. The actual page file usage can be monitored with Perfmon or you can get small, simple and easy to use free third party utilities to do it. About using flash drives as RAM disks: Personally with the slower write times factored in the equation I don't see much to be gained with this and I see a lot of potential problems. Rather than trying to implement this I would instead try to reclaim the unused unaddressed memory in the upper address space and use it as a real RAM drive, this is the fastest available unused resource on your computer, depending on the hardware installed on your machine you may have 750MB to over 1GB or unaddressed unused RAM in your machine, with Gavotte's RamDisk you may be able to reclaim this unused RAM, having a page file on this disk would be ideal as the system would page in the RAM rather than from RAM to disk. Other paging file strategies: If your system really needs a page file larger than 4GB or if the system must page then you can have multiple paging files, Windows can have a bunch of paging files! Ideally the paging files should be on different hard disk (not different partitions on the same disk) and on computers with IDE disks the paging paging file should not be on a disk that is in a master/slave relationship with the operating system disk or another busy disk, on SATA disks this doesn't matter. On older computers with IDE controllers an effective way of spreading multiple page files about on different disks is to use and add-on IDE controller card. If you have more than one paging file on different disks then by default Windows will favour the page file on the least busy disk. If you are running a server or application that needs a lot of paging space and if you only have one hard disk you can still make use of multiple paging files by mounting them to folders. These may be helpful: Ask the Performance Team: What is the Page File for anyway? Make Sense of Memory Management and Key Memory Measurements Things to consider before you enable System cache mode in Windows XP RAM, virtual memory, pagefile, and memory management in Windows The Virtual-Memory Manager in Windows NT John

Thanks, again!. I'll give those links a read, too. I put the setting back to "Programs", as opposed to "System Cache", in Memory. Things just didn't seem to be loading very fast. And, I will give the article on Gavotte's RamDisk another read. It sounds great! There just seemed to be as many negative comments as there were positives. I see your point about the "1.5x-3x" settings. I did add the /PAE so that I could increase, but before I keep the C PF at a high value, I'll try the RamDisk. I have a separate issue, that when the computer starts, a screen displaying the motherboard model info is shown, and I have to press F8, then select SATA from a menu for the computer to boot properly. (This before I changed anything). Now, since I added the /PAE, it is asking me to select from 2 choices of Windows XP (after selecting SATA from the list, after pressing F8. after adding /PAE [boot loader] timeout=30 default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS [operating systems] multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" /noexecute=optin /PAE /fastdetect multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect (I copied the last line, and added the /PAE in. A couple examples appeared to look like this. Maybe it is improper. Of course, it has the noexecute=optin there also.) But, the "F8 and SATA" quirk was happening for a while. Now, it is asking me to select the OS. But, runs okay once it boots up. It does take a long time... on a black screen.

You're being presented with a boot menu because the boot.ini file has more than one entry, the switches should all be on the same line. You would only use additional lines if you have a multi-boot system. Your boot.ini file should look like this: [boot loader] timeout=30 default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS [operating systems] multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" /noexecute=optin /PAE /fastdetect John

Thanks! I will change that... But, the issue with the motherboard screen/F8/having to select SATA was happening before I made ANY changes, at all. I am sure it is a simple fix to an address, or a command line, somewhere close... I will make this change (to the boot.ini ), and see what happens. I am currently also investigating the Gavotte option, but when I click on it to install, I get a folder of compressed files. The instructions say to extract the archive and run it... But there are 10 files... I am not getting it... I need a RUN button, LOL. http://www.megaleecher.net/RAMDisk#axzz2woDMs0vr I am an electrician/technician/machine mechanic, not a IT guy. I do know my limitations. But, I am working on it. In the mean time, I will make the change to the boot file... Thanks again!

Okay. For the record, I removed the additional line in the boot.ini file. It now reads as it should, on one line, with /PAE contained. However, upon restarting, I DID NOT press F8 when the 'motherboard screen' appeared, and the system went to "HP PC SYSTEM RECOVERY". At some point, months ago, this started happening, and I figyred out that by pressing F8, I could get to the screen where I can drop down 2 items and select SATA to boot the system. I would like to correct this! (My kids cannot start the machine without me). Prior to restarting, I restored the C drive PF Values to the settings exactly as they were before I started. Initial: 2046 Maximum: 4092 The only difference now (other than the /PAE switch) is the 16GB flash drive USB L: drive, plugged in, formatted NTFS, allocated PF 15204-15199, and if I am correct, the OS isn't even recognizing this. So, I should probably set the values to zero, select "No Paging File", Set, and get it out of there.

Having trouble: Adding RAM with a USB memory stick to a Windows XP desktop that has 4GB installed

Anonymous

Short form:

I want to use a 16GB USB flash drive memory stick as RAM, but seem to be unable to use more than 4GB, due to the system requirements, limiting what I can enter for values (size). WHY??

More detail:

The computer is a desktop machine, having a 3.0GHz dual-core processor, and 4GB RAM installed. I believe the hard drive is a 1T.

I have a 16GB USB flash drive memory stick, which I want to use to boost the RAM, for games, and such. There are 3 spare USB ports on the back of the tower. The flash drive is new, with NO files saved on it.

When I go into the Settings; Computer; Virtual Memory, the computer is not allowing me to enter a value greater than 4096 in the field for "Initial Size" or "Maximum Size", for the Page File of the USB drive.

The Value for C: that I see is: "2096-4092".

Main Question:

Is there some reason why I cannot allocate more of the memory stick for RAM?

(Does the flash drive need to be formatted?)

Does the values for C: need to be changed?

I presently have "4090" entered for values "Initial Size" and "Maximum Size" in the custom size, for the Page File of the USB Drive.

Screenshot provided of Virtual Memory Settings screen: (you can see the L: drive settings (selected), and the C: settings, also)

http://prntscr.com/336ocy

Question 2:

Also, is the "4G" of RAM which I have added to the machine, being added to the 4GB which is already installed in the tower?

Question 3:

Does the OS wait until the system RAM is full before using the External RAM?

Thanks!

edit to add:

What I learned from Microsoft article "How To Set Performance Options in Windows XP":

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/308417/en-us

To manually change the size of virtual memory, follow these steps:

...Note After you change the size of the paging file, you may be prompted to restart Windows. If you are prompted to restart, the changes will not take effect until Windows is restarted.

...

To have Windows select the best paging file size, click System managed size. The recommended minimum size is the same as 1.5 times the RAM on your computer, and 3 times that figure for the maximum size. For example, if you have 256 MB of RAM, the minimum size is 384 MB, and the maximum size is 1152 MB.
For best performance, do not set the initial size to less than the minimum recommended size under Total paging file size for all drives. The recommended size is the same as 1.5 times the RAM on your computer. It is good practice to leave the paging file at its recommended size as performance can decrease if a paging file is too large. However, you may increase its size if you frequently use programs that use lots of memory, such as graphics programs or games.

What I am unclear of here, is that, as you can see in the screenshot, the Recommended Size under Total paging file size for all drives is 3019M.

And, the values set for the Paging File in C are 2046-4092.

The tower has been rebuilt, and has 4GB RAM.

I do not know if these numbers reflect an original build of 2GB, whereas 3GB (3019M) would be 1.5 times the installed RAM, perhaps.

Under Virtual Memory, I see the following (shown in screenshot):

Drive C

Space available: 725194MB

*Custom Size

Initial Size: 2046

Maximum Size: 4092

Total paging file size for all Drives

Minimum allowed: 2MB

Recommended: 3019MB

Currently Allocated: 2046MB

Given that the system has 4GB RAM installed, shouldn't the minimum be 1.5 times that value, or ~6000MB ? (not 3019MB), and the maximum be 3 times ? (not 4092)

"The recommended minimum size is the same as 1.5 times the RAM on your computer, and 3 times that figure for the maximum size."

Can I change the values on the Virtual memory for C drive to 2046-12000MB ?

That is what I am reading from the article. But, it also says to not have a paging file on the same drive as the programs.

"Try to avoid having a paging file on the same drive as the system files, usually drive C."

Also, why am I unable to enter values greater than 4096 for the USB drive in Initial or Maximum?

I also have a question as to whether I should select "Programs" or "System Cache" in memory usage, due to the cache requirements of games, running very few programs.

edit 2:

I learned that the usb drive needs to be formatted in NTFS, so I did that, which isn't easy, as that isn't a selection in the choices in the Format menu, without going into Device Mgr.

A friend was telling me about formatting a usb drive ex-fat for a newer application, and got me thinking. I had selected FAT32 for this one, and had noticed no change in the page file graph usage after adding the drive, like it wasn't getting any data placed on it.

So, as custom settings for this USB drive, I have the Initial value at 4091 and the Maximum at 4096, with "System Cache" selected as opposed to "Programs" in Memory usage, in Performance settings.

Any answers or tips would be appreciated.

Am I on the right track?

Locked Question. This question was migrated from the Microsoft Support Community. You can vote on whether it's helpful, but you can't add comments or replies or follow the question.

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149 answers

Anonymous

2014-03-23T23:05:40+00:00

Don't take the Jekyll & Hyde comment personally, it wasn't directed at you but rather made to illustrate how home users sometimes do all kinds of things to their computers without really knowing or fully understanding the consequences of these actions, generally speaking machines in corporate/enterprise environments don't take the kind of abuse that home machines do. To learn you have to experiment and you have to be willing to push the boundary, I've done (and still do) plenty of "experimenting" and at times some of it doesn't exactly turn out as expected... I strongly encourage experimentation to those who want to learn, unexpected results are part of the learning experience.

There is a lot to address in your post, the Windows memory management is a rather complex subject so I'll just briefly address a few things and feel free to ask more questions if you need further clarifications or more in depth explanations.

Firstly, the page file size and the 1.5 to 3 times RAM recommendation: This recommendation dates from the NT4 era and it made a lot of sense then when machines had very little RAM, on today's machines the recommendation is not always appropriate. If the XP machine has less than 1 gig of RAM then you could follow the recommendation, if the machine has more than 1 gig then the recommendations are not necessarily appropriate, enabling PAE just for the sake of having a page file larger than 4GB may not be a very good idea. In most cases rather than creating and excessively large page file it is best to have a the system dynamically manage the page file. The argument against the system managed page file is that the page file may become fragmented and this may affect performance, if this is a concern then set a static page file.

The Task Manager and the PF usage information: The Task Managers PF usage information is a bit misleading, this doesn't really report the page file size but rather the current commit charge or the page file that would be needed if all the running processes would ask for all their allocated memory all at once, in reality this doesn't happen very often. If the commit charge is lower than the installed RAM then the page file is not really used other than for mapping purpose and the size of the file will for all intents and purposes be negligible. The actual page file usage can be monitored with Perfmon or you can get small, simple and easy to use free third party utilities to do it.

About using flash drives as RAM disks: Personally with the slower write times factored in the equation I don't see much to be gained with this and I see a lot of potential problems. Rather than trying to implement this I would instead try to reclaim the unused unaddressed memory in the upper address space and use it as a real RAM drive, this is the fastest available unused resource on your computer, depending on the hardware installed on your machine you may have 750MB to over 1GB or unaddressed unused RAM in your machine, with Gavotte's RamDisk you may be able to reclaim this unused RAM, having a page file on this disk would be ideal as the system would page in the RAM rather than from RAM to disk.

Other paging file strategies: If your system really needs a page file larger than 4GB or if the system must page then you can have multiple paging files, Windows can have a bunch of paging files! Ideally the paging files should be on different hard disk (not different partitions on the same disk) and on computers with IDE disks the paging paging file should not be on a disk that is in a master/slave relationship with the operating system disk or another busy disk, on SATA disks this doesn't matter. On older computers with IDE controllers an effective way of spreading multiple page files about on different disks is to use and add-on IDE controller card. If you have more than one paging file on different disks then by default Windows will favour the page file on the least busy disk. If you are running a server or application that needs a lot of paging space and if you only have one hard disk you can still make use of multiple paging files by mounting them to folders.

These may be helpful:

Ask the Performance Team: What is the Page File for anyway?

Make Sense of Memory Management and Key Memory Measurements

Things to consider before you enable System cache mode in Windows XP

RAM, virtual memory, pagefile, and memory management in Windows

The Virtual-Memory Manager in Windows NT

John
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Anonymous

2014-03-24T01:11:05+00:00

Thanks, again!. I'll give those links a read, too.

I put the setting back to "Programs", as opposed to "System Cache", in Memory. Things just didn't seem to be loading very fast.

And, I will give the article on Gavotte's RamDisk another read. It sounds great! There just seemed to be as many negative comments as there were positives.

I see your point about the "1.5x-3x" settings. I did add the /PAE so that I could increase, but before I keep the C PF at a high value, I'll try the RamDisk.

I have a separate issue, that when the computer starts, a screen displaying the motherboard model info is shown, and I have to press F8, then select SATA from a menu for the computer to boot properly. (This before I changed anything).

Now, since I added the /PAE, it is asking me to select from 2 choices of Windows XP (after selecting SATA from the list, after pressing F8.

after adding /PAE

[boot loader]

timeout=30

default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS

[operating systems]

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" /noexecute=optin /PAE /fastdetect

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

(I copied the last line, and added the /PAE in. A couple examples appeared to look like this. Maybe it is improper. Of course, it has the noexecute=optin there also.)

But, the "F8 and SATA" quirk was happening for a while. Now, it is asking me to select the OS. But, runs okay once it boots up. It does take a long time... on a black screen.
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Anonymous

2014-03-24T02:29:18+00:00

You're being presented with a boot menu because the boot.ini file has more than one entry, the switches should all be on the same line. You would only use additional lines if you have a multi-boot system. Your boot.ini file should look like this:

[boot loader]

timeout=30

default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS

[operating systems]

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" /noexecute=optin /PAE /fastdetect

John
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Anonymous

2014-03-24T02:49:32+00:00

Thanks!

I will change that...

But, the issue with the motherboard screen/F8/having to select SATA was happening before I made ANY changes, at all.

I am sure it is a simple fix to an address, or a command line, somewhere close...

I will make this change (to the boot.ini ), and see what happens.

I am currently also investigating the Gavotte option, but when I click on it to install, I get a folder of compressed files.

The instructions say to extract the archive and run it... But there are 10 files... I am not getting it... I need a RUN button, LOL.

http://www.megaleecher.net/RAMDisk#axzz2woDMs0vr

I am an electrician/technician/machine mechanic, not a IT guy. I do know my limitations. But, I am working on it.

In the mean time, I will make the change to the boot file... Thanks again!
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Anonymous

2014-03-24T03:16:50+00:00

Okay. For the record, I removed the additional line in the boot.ini file. It now reads as it should, on one line, with /PAE contained.

However, upon restarting, I DID NOT press F8 when the 'motherboard screen' appeared, and the system went to "HP PC SYSTEM RECOVERY". At some point, months ago, this started happening, and I figyred out that by pressing F8, I could get to the screen where I can drop down 2 items and select SATA to boot the system.

I would like to correct this! (My kids cannot start the machine without me).

Prior to restarting, I restored the C drive PF Values to the settings exactly as they were before I started.

Initial: 2046

Maximum: 4092

The only difference now (other than the /PAE switch) is the 16GB flash drive USB L: drive, plugged in, formatted NTFS, allocated PF 15204-15199, and if I am correct, the OS isn't even recognizing this. So, I should probably set the values to zero, select "No Paging File", Set, and get it out of there.
Was this answer helpful?

0 comments No comments