Russian mnemonic keyboard three letters missing: щ ч э

Anonymous
2012-12-24T05:08:49+00:00

It is nice that windows 8 added a mnemonic Russian keyboard.

Unfortunately there are three letters which I can not find: щ, ч and э.

These three letters exist in the standard Russian keyboard. They are at the following location (in the US  keyboard): o,x and '.

Without these three letters the mnemonic keyboard is useless

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Anonymous
2013-01-16T03:58:39+00:00

You just need to type multiple keys to get to those letters: For example some (not all) of them:

sh -> ш

ch -> ч

jo -> ё

je -> э

And this is just awesome. This means you just type the way it sounds and Russian letters just magically produced.

Chego eschjo xhelat'? -> Чего ещё желать?

Note that the left hand side is quite readable as is.

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Anonymous
2013-01-24T14:59:23+00:00

It is nice that windows 8 added a mnemonic Russian keyboard.

Unfortunately there are three letters which I can not find: щ, ч and э.

These three letters exist in the standard Russian keyboard. They are at the following location (in the US  keyboard): o,x and '.

Without these three letters the mnemonic keyboard is useless

One not very obvious aspect is the way the combination "ые" is typed, by the way. You actually need to hit the spacebar after typing [English] 'y', so that the keyboard knows you are in fact typing 'ы' and not the first element of ’э', which is entered using the English key sequence 'ye'. By contrast, if you want to type 'ые’ (as in 'красивые') you need to type '[krasiv]y[spacebar]e.'

Was frustrating for me before I figured that one out...

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  1. Anonymous
    2015-01-24T01:33:16+00:00

    Since I keep forgetting, and always keep getting to this post, I'll save the knowledge here:

    x->ж

    sc->щ

    sh->ш

    ch->ч

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  2. Anonymous
    2013-10-28T21:49:50+00:00

    sc = щ

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  3. Anonymous
    2013-10-22T21:45:17+00:00

    Hi

    Generally agree with you if you need to use many different computers (most people don't say I am using one at work ~10hours a day :) and then one at home) but need to make some comments:

    1. Yes, it's good whne OS has already a built-in mnemonic layout, but why not the way it was for previous versions? Why the change? Apple did the same thing - added Russian mnemonic layout - but it was one the community got used to since 1996 - with 1:1 correspondence:

    since 1996 it was proven - both by native speakers and non-native speakers (like members of AATSEEL.org) that it's much easier to learn 7 positions of a phonetic 1:1 layout (yes, it's better whn it comes with the OS as Apple does) - one time learning! - rather than constantly, all your life :-( keep analyzing the text to figure out whether you should use blank space method or not.

    I really cannot see how these 2 approaches could even be compared - 1-time momorizing of 7 positions or entire life guessing (and if your guess was wrong - "bad Cyrillic" or correction).

    I mean when person types a text (not one line) s/he should concentrate on the context rather than on "combination rules and exemptions". No?

    1. Based on AATSEEL.org members experience and also on discussions with non-native speakers on some forums, I cannotfully  agree with that:

    "I can definitely see how their mnemonic approach makes life easy for library and other workers who may have to periodically input in Cyrillic even without total command of Russian. They MS Cyrillic input is pretty much a WYSIWYG match to transliterated Russian."

    What I saw is that - unlike us, native speakers - non-native speakers does not find it clear what combinations are good for what Russian letters, especially with the (known) difference between US and European approach:

    • for German speakers ''щ" is not 'sch' and some other combinations are also different

    So there is no "single way" in this type of input, while in phonetic 1:1 layout there is no confusion, it's straight forward and "stable" among any user. Again, no need in "blank space" workaround either.

    It's why 1:1 layout has won the market comparing to 'combinations conversion' (it's what I see on dozens and dozens Russian language forums outside of Russia in the period 1996-2013) -

    I mean comparing these two, without adding users of Standard Russian  layout as it's a very different way of typing:

    • before MSKLC, that is, before Windows XP (back in 2001?) there were more users of "quessing algorythm of combination conversion" (translit.ru or "in place" (in any application) conversion like in programs "Letter Zu" or "CrazyKeys" allow) than users of 1:1 phonetic layout (mostly due to the hard way of installing it)
    • after 2001 (when it's just one click on setup.exe made by MSKLC) it's so opposite - many more users of 1:1 phonetic layout  and nowadays it's hard to find a user CrazyKeys or Letter Zu among millions of people who use Russian-language forums from n Australia and NewZealand to USA and Canada, from Israel to Spain and France, from China, Korea and Japan to Germany and Greece

    My observation is that people like to type without remembering any exemptions which require a work-around, so they either learn Standard Russian layout (good for you that you decided to join that group - it contains the biggest number of members even outside Russia) or 1:1 phonetic layout.

    Same with me personally - I did try 'combination conversion' many times and found it extremely annoying and frustrating when the same (!) Russian letter has to be typed differently in different words (noncense!) like:

    "vyshel" - "вышел" where Latin 'y is used for Russian 'ы'

    but in "vyuchil" same Russian letter 'ы' has to be typed using "blank space" work-around

    same with say Russian 'й':

    • "pojti" - Latin 'j' was used
    • but not in 'rajon" - same 'й' has to be typed using "blank space" work-around

    :(

    And there is no list of such exemptions - Russian language is very rich.

    It's why most people who want to stick with mnemonic typing, choose 1:1 phonetic approach even - as we see in this thread - under Windows 8 - it's just much less tedious and demanding:

    similar really to a learing of Standard Russian layout - learn neede positions once and your are done - no work-around and guessing in the future!

    :)

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