I HATE Windows 8. This is the worst OS ever invented.

I have no idea how much an update costs since I got my new laptop with it but I think you miss the entire point of the conversation and you keep on coming back to the least important elements of my point, which is fine... not everyone has the same understanding (and by the way, you do need to run experiments after you PhD to get tenured but that's another point). 

In any case, the point is: appearances matter if the people want to remove them... that means people need to have a choice.. Win 8 does not give that choice without a 3rd party software. That is a huge problem. It still does not give a choice in the logging on and the Live ID. Huge problems. This is what my discussion is about. Forget everything else. remember only one thing: CHOICE!

You chose to bring up the wine and people's choice being affected by price.  It was your point, not mine.  Counterpoints to point made by you.  Windows 7 upgrades cost more RIGHT NOW than Windows 8 upgrades.  Using your wine experiment - do people think they are getting a better wine with Windows 7 and a lesser wine with Windows 8?

Who says you have to be tenured?  Who says you have to use your PhD in academia?  Do you know how many different types of PhDs exist?  Not everyone who has a PhD did it to teach or experiment - some actually did it because they were bored, wanted to learn, thought it was a worthwhile endeavor at the time, etc.  You seem to want o lump everyone into some neat packages - 7 billion people from all walks of life with different points of view on just about everything - those neat packages only exist in small bubbles.

The following statement is made with this caveat: *without third party utilities and/or hacks that were not approved or suggested by the original manufacturer*

As far as choice - Windows XP succeeded despite not having a choice of making it truly look and act like Windows 95/98.  Windows 7 succeeded despite not having a choice of making it truly look and act like Windows XP.  OS X succeeds despite it not looking like Windows or even being able to make it look like Windows (and vice-versa.)  iPads succeed despite not looking like anything else and some competitors succeed despite not looking anything like an iPad.  Your whole bolded "the point is" part was the same complaint in Windows XP, Windows Vista and Windows 7.  11 years and another OS later...

Now - having said that - you have a choice.  You can buy it and use it as is or change it where it looks like you want and perhaps some functionality you want with other tools/utilities (want the Bentley engine in the Hyundai - go for it.  Want the opposite, do that too.)  You can not buy it at all.  You can buy it and voice your opinions and see if in the next version they take that in consideration - using one of the other choices already mentioned in the meantime.  However - what's *not* going to happen is your opinion is not going to change something as widespread and complicated as the design of a currently released OS tomorrow, next week or even next month.  In fact - it is likely that other than encouraging more third party vendors to come up with ways to make the new look like the old - perhaps even act like it... You won't change much in any version of the near future.

Yes, you are right. We won't change a complicated operating system of a currently 'designed?' operating system. However, this operating system was NOT 'designed'. It was foisted upon us by idiots that thought they knew better and hoped to get a name for themselves as the next 'Steve Jobs'. The internal wranglings inside Microsoft are apparent to all and no matter what bullshit you put forward is irrelevant. Developers and previous Microsoft supporters are angry at your complete ignorance of our requests for operating system features. The Metro interface is a pathetic attempt to copy Apple. The apps that are available are DIRE and the interface provided is so pathetically designed, it's an irritant (Music apps with no volume control (ffs!) Photo apps with no rotation!) You include desktop app links as Metro (Yes METRO, Your f**k up, not MINE in selecting the name! don't your marketing department research anything?!) Windows 8 has been a marketing disaster from start to finish. Windows RT (Underpowered limited implementation (Not to mention Sinofskys failed demo! Hilarious!)) Windows Surface Pro, (Useless battery life) When are you people at Microsoft going to realise you've been found out? **** Software. **** hardware. Period. Developers left in the lurch as to what is the way forward (.NET)(Silverlight?) Microsoft engineers should be ashamed of themselves to allow the idiot managers within their organisation to dictate policy and allow this to happen. (Bill Gates, you are still Chairman and you let this happen? Shame on you! You idiot!) Windows 8 is SO MUCH a bigger failure than Vista. What a wasted opportunity! (All you had to do was make METRO optional....Simple, You would have had a winner, but no, you decided to force people...people like options , it's human nature, sorry!)

Yes, you are right. We won't change a complicated operating system of a currently 'designed?' operating system. However, this operating system was NOT 'designed'. It was foisted upon us by idiots that thought they knew better and hoped to get a name for themselves as the next 'Steve Jobs'. The internal wranglings inside Microsoft are apparent to all and no matter what bullshit you put forward is irrelevant. Developers and previous Microsoft supporters are angry at your complete ignorance of our requests for operating system features. The Metro interface is a pathetic attempt to copy Apple. The apps that are available are DIRE and the interface provided is so pathetically designed, it's an irritant (Music apps with no volume control (ffs!) Photo apps with no rotation!) You include desktop app links as Metro (Yes METRO, Your f**k up, not MINE in selecting the name! don't your marketing department research anything?!) Windows 8 has been a marketing disaster from start to finish. Windows RT (Underpowered limited implementation (Not to mention Sinofskys failed demo! Hilarious!)) Windows Surface Pro, (Useless battery life) When are you people at Microsoft going to realise you've been found out? **** Software. **** hardware. Period. Developers left in the lurch as to what is the way forward (.NET)(Silverlight?) Microsoft engineers should be ashamed of themselves to allow the idiot managers within their organisation to dictate policy and allow this to happen. (Bill Gates, you are still Chairman and you let this happen? Shame on you! You idiot!) Windows 8 is SO MUCH a bigger failure than Vista. What a wasted opportunity! (All you had to do was make METRO optional....Simple, You would have had a winner, but no, you decided to force people...people like options , it's human nature, sorry!)

Just so you know - I could care less if Microsoft succeeds or fails.  I have no ties to them.

Shenan, you are completely missing the point... not sure if it is deliberate or just plain ignorance. 

I have been very specific about having no choice as to whether I want to use a log-on or not and as to whether I want to use my Live ID (i.e. hotmail email account) for that. Everythig else is freedom of choice but these have never ever been forced upon us by ANY computer manufacturer before and I bet you that it won't ever happen again either because Microsoft is going to change it--just watch.. like I said.. 1 lawyer is all it takes!

You may call everyone names and try to place them in place but the reality is that while you may be a Microsoft expert in this forum, "we the people" have the power out there to change Microsoft or let them fall... (and that has happened before... just remember that)

As for PhD... given that I have one and you know nothing about me... perhaps the discussion of what PhDs do or do not do shall remain with those of us who have it.

Have a great weekend and enjoy your extra steps of logging on and don't forget who the dictator is, however temporarily so... lol

Cheers!

You said "if it appears to not work correctly" - yet it works correctly for what I have used it for.  What did not 'work correctly' for you?

I know what all the posts in this thread say, and everything the posters had to say. I used a very complicated process we non-phd's in the literary business like to call "reading." Try it, and I bet you too will be able to see what didn't work for me.

Since participation in this thread now appears to require Tape measures, and (unless it surprises us all) no longer has the potential to serve any earthly purpose, I'll be removing my subscription.

I came in here searching for a way to solve the Windows 8 problems, not to call names, posture, and strut around.

J.M.